Death of the local gun store.

[ryknoll3]

The problem with you disagreeing is that you do not realize what goes into firearms transfers. It its time that goes into logging a gun in and logging one out and the time for paperwork in between. Plus the dealings with ATF if everything wasnt triple checked to make sure everything is perfect so you do not lose your license. This is the most regulated industry in the US and the ATF can make mistakes but God help the gun store that does. You really do not have a clue what is involved. Transfers ARE a courtesy!

Bullcrap. I have a C&R and have to keep the same bound book that an 01 FFL keeps. You copy down the info from the license that comes with the gun (or person's DL info if a non-licensee), the type, make, model, caliber and serial of the gun, and then fill in the disposition side when it goes out. Do you keep your bound book on stone tablets? How long does this take? It takes me about 30 seconds to record a gun in, and 15 to record it out.

I won't argue with you on the compliance end, ATF is a joke in that regard.

 

[drillsgt]

Yep! Gun shows are high. I always enjoy deciphering your posts. I feel like I'm learning a new language. Hillbilly Ebonics?

I feel the same way, when I read his posts I for some reason picture the cross-eyed cajun football player from the movie Waterboy.

 

[sb0]

Try death of the local *insert item here* store. Virtually everything is cheaper online. Gun stores are in a much better position than others given the unique nature of firearms and the legal hassles of shipping and transferring.

 

[gregkl]

Bullcrap. I have a C&R and have to keep the same bound book that an 01 FFL keeps. You copy down the info from the license that comes with the gun (or person's DL info if a non-licensee), the type, make, model, caliber and serial of the gun, and then fill in the disposition side when it goes out. Do you keep your bound book on stone tablets? How long does this take? It takes me about 30 seconds to record a gun in, and 15 to record it out.

The last transfer I did, the guy did it all by computer. Keyed in the data and got the approval over the net. No phone call on his part to provide the information that I wrote on the form.

It took me longer to fill out the form than it did him to get it done.

And really, with few exceptions, processing a transaction is not costing them much of anything. The store employees can catch up on the BS with their buds after they take my $25. lol.

 

[silverspoon]

I guess I'm pretty lucky. I have a local gun shop that has very competitive prices and a few others that are kinda high but you get more for trade-ins so even though the numbers are higher it works out about the same in the end. I don't do the online thing, don't do the chain store thing and very rarely buy anything at a gun show. I buy almost exclusively from the LGS's. And primarily from one local shop in particular although there is a couple others reasonably close if I really want something and he don't have it. Yup it probably costs me a bit more but that's ok. If I get the gun home and it doesn't function properly the first box down the pipe it's the LGS's problem. That's why I paid a little extra. I don't have to try and resolve something with someone over the phone or by email or put it up for sale here on INGO. I don't have to pay the local gun shop to send it back to get it repaired because I didn't buy it there. I just take the gun back in and look the very same man that sold me the firearm in the eye and explain the problem. You may pay a few dollars more but the personalized service is worth every penny to me. And I buy and trade more than one or two guns a year which I'm sure helps my cause when there is an issue.

 

[Trooper]

The GCA of '68 provided jobs for people who would have never fit in anywhere else. How many LGS employees or owners are just misfits, loners who never learned to play well with others?

Had we not had the GCA of '68, guns would have gone onto mail order, and later the Internet, like so many other hobbies (amateur radio local stores were hit hard by mail order for example). It would have been far simpler then to block gun sales with the new rules. But because of the Act, we developed a good local market.

Now what is hitting LGS is the big stores. I saw similar big stores in Europe. I knew that in time this would come to America. Cabelas, Gander Mountain, Rural King and other chains are slowly putting the LGS out of business. If most LGS owners were not such independent cusses, they might have formed alliances like the IGA did for independent grocery stores.

 

[cubbetm]

My local gun stores aren't even local anymore. I stopped going to the gun stores in Lafayette because of the hours I work. I can only go on Saturdays and to be honest the kid they hired as one is a straight up dick. Talks down to customers and tries to play it off like he knows what he's talking about when he does not. I travel down i65 and out 28 for work a lot so I just stop at gun stores along the way. I don't mind paying for the gas to not deal with bs.

As for price and transfers I tend to follow some other people's ideas on here. Less than a certain amount difference? Sure ill buy LGS. I haven't ever transferred a firearm. I normally buy used or trade. Every time I've seen a seemingly good "deal" it's ruined by shipping and transfer fees

 

[Trooper]

Try death of the local *insert item here* store. Virtually everything is cheaper online. Gun stores are in a much better position than others given the unique nature of firearms and the legal hassles of shipping and transferring.

The GCA of '68 was a jobs program for guys who could not play well with others. Thus often poor customer service.

Amateur radio lost most of their local stores with the mail order (800 numbers) boom in the late '70s and early '80s. Before that most communities had a local store. Same with camera shops. Now most high end camera purchases are done via the Internet or 800 numbers (mail order). Amazon is hurting a lot of brick and mortar stores. Same with getting insurance online as opposed to having a local agent.

What is killing LGS is big chains like Cabelas, Gander Mountain or Rural King.

 

[Manatee]

Bullcrap. I have a C&R and have to keep the same bound book that an 01 FFL keeps. You copy down the info from the license that comes with the gun (or person's DL info if a non-licensee), the type, make, model, caliber and serial of the gun, and then fill in the disposition side when it goes out. Do you keep your bound book on stone tablets? How long does this take? It takes me about 30 seconds to record a gun in, and 15 to record it out.

I won't argue with you on the compliance end, ATF is a joke in that regard.

A C&R does not make you a mini-ffl.

A transfer requires contact with the purchaser, contact (email or fax) with the transferor, followup phone calls or emails when the item is shipped and more when the item is received. Unpacking. Logging into bound book. Background check. Followup on background check if delays occur. DISPOSING OF SHIPPING BOXES. Answering questions the purchaser has about the firearm (because he bought it on line and didn't really get to ask the seller any of those questions).

So, to your 30 seconds Mr. Mini-FFL, I say: Bravo Sierra.

And I do it for $20, all the time risking my gunsmithing profession if a paperwork error occurs and the ATF gets nasty.

 

[ryknoll3]

A C&R does not make you a mini-ffl.

A transfer requires contact with the purchaser, contact (email or fax) with the transferor, followup phone calls or emails when the item is shipped and more when the item is received. Unpacking. Logging into bound book. Background check. Followup on background check if delays occur. DISPOSING OF SHIPPING BOXES. Answering questions the purchaser has about the firearm (because he bought it on line and didn't really get to ask the seller any of those questions).

So, to your 30 seconds Mr. Mini-FFL, I say: Bravo Sierra.

And I do it for $20, all the time risking my gunsmithing profession if a paperwork error occurs and the ATF gets nasty.

I was responding to your statement that "It's the time that goes into logging a gun in and out." I've heard other dealers that complain about transfers talk about "logging guns in and out" like it's some big process. I did not realize that you were factoring the WHOLE process into the "logging guns in and out" statement. I was simply refuting the notion, one that I've heard LOTS of times that logging guns in and out takes all this time. It is simply not true. Is the WHOLE process for an 01 FFL more involved, yes, I will concede that it is.

I think in a lot of ways FFL's are fortunate that the current regulatory scheme exists as it does. If people could order direct, gun shops would be mostly extinct.

 

[Manatee]

It wasn't my statement you were responding to, (for what it's worth).

I'll have to think long and hard as to whether my FFL has bestowed "fortune". Long indeed.

 

[42769vette]

If people could order direct, gun shops would be mostly extinct.

The same could be said for car's, furniture, appliance's, or anything else. A lot of manufactor's dont sell direct to end user. Its kind of like you cant buy a mustang from Ford you have to buy it from a Ford dealer.

 

[ryknoll3]

It wasn't my statement you were responding to, (for what it's worth).

I'll have to think long and hard as to whether my FFL has bestowed "fortune". Long indeed.

Sorry, Manatee, you're right. It wasn't your post.

 

[ryknoll3]

The same could be said for car's, furniture, appliance's, or anything else. A lot of manufactor's dont sell direct to end user. Its kind of like you cant buy a mustang from Ford you have to buy it from a Ford dealer.

True. Most of those items are too big to ship direct to customers. You couldn't afford the freight for a single fridge to come from GE to your house, for example. Or a chair from La-Z-Boy, without distribution centers, in which case you might as well sell to stores with showrooms.

On cars, Tesla is testing the car dealership model. They have showrooms, but you buy the car yourself online. Of course, traditional car dealerships are fighting this and asking their state legislatures to prohibit this business model.

Tesla takes on America's car dealers - May. 20, 2013

I'm just saying that since guns are easy and relatively inexpensive to ship (compared to the large, household items you mentioned), if the law was changed to allow you to do your own background check or hold some sort of license (like you can with a C&R), LGS's would have a MUCH harder time competing with the internet. They're too small and specialized to compete on price. There's always value in being able to hold and examine what you purchase before you buy it, but it seems MOST people still consider price above all else.

Just look at almost ANY other small, specialty shop that tries to open up. It seems that if your customers can order the same item online for cheaper, they aren't going to stay in business.

 

[sb0]

The GCA of '68 was a jobs program for guys who could not play well with others. Thus often poor customer service.

Amateur radio lost most of their local stores with the mail order (800 numbers) boom in the late '70s and early '80s. Before that most communities had a local store. Same with camera shops. Now most high end camera purchases are done via the Internet or 800 numbers (mail order). Amazon is hurting a lot of brick and mortar stores. Same with getting insurance online as opposed to having a local agent.

What is killing LGS is big chains like Cabelas, Gander Mountain or Rural King.

One word: Efficiency

 

[Miles42]

The tax in most cases is not there when you buy on line. There is the transfer fee however. In most cases about 25 or 30 dollars. There are a few places that do not charge for shipping. Local gun shops need to be more selective when choosing a distributor. That is where the gouging takes place.

 

[Fordtough25]

I still like holding a gun before I buy it, I have yet to but any firearms off the internet. Now ammo, slings, etc is another story. But I still check my LGS beforehand usually, unless I am trying to find a used item on here. Also I am surprised at what people trade in at my LGS, it's crazy what pops up in there!

 

[churchmouse]

I still like holding a gun before I buy it, I have yet to but any firearms off the internet. Now ammo, slings, etc is another story. But I still check my LGS beforehand usually, unless I am trying to find a used item on here. Also I am surprised at what people trade in at my LGS, it's crazy what pops up in there!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If I can not See, Hold, check out....I am not buying. Sight unseen never has worked out well for me.

 

[StuBob]

I've never bought a gun online and hope never to have to. Even though one new Glock 17 is the same as any other, it feels good to say "I'll take this one."

As for ammo, do they sell that at LGS's?

 

[backlashjack]

Sorry, but your small time C&R is really nothing compared to what we do here with hand written books and computer books as well. We deal with volume and you deal with a transaction here and there. No comparison!