DHS Purchases 21.6 Million More Rounds of Ammunition

[in625shooter]

Just read the Dept. of Home Land Security bought another 21.6 million rounds of .40 cal HOLLOW POINTS for target practice. Last I knew we never used hollow points for target practice! This is on top of the however many BILLION they just bought! Using our tax money to buy up all the ammo so we go hungry! I would hope these ammo manufactures aren't selling us out which is what it looks like.

With few exceptions most Federal agencies practice with the same JHP load they use for duty. This is for a couple reasons. 1. It gets shooters use to the same POA/POI whether on the range or in a deadly force encounter.
2. There will be no chance with a mix up the ball with the JHP when one goes out for duty carry or ammunition is rotated out.

 

[bsnyder413]

I posted this link from drudge report. They cited jones. I trust drudge

 

[bsnyder413]

Alex jones is a blowhard. If you have info, educate

 

[U.S. Patriot]

Just read the Dept. of Home Land Security bought another 21.6 million rounds of .40 cal HOLLOW POINTS for target practice. Last I knew we never used hollow points for target practice! This is on top of the however many BILLION they just bought! Using our tax money to buy up all the ammo so we go hungry! I would hope these ammo manufactures aren't selling us out which is what it looks like.

I will try to explain it in "simple terms". I was in the Coast Guard, under the DHS. The Coast Guard as a whole fired millions of rounds per year just to qualify. That does not include what was in reserve. When I was in, we were issued Beretta's, and FMJ ammo. After I got out, they switched to Sig 228's in .40. They also switched to HP ammunition. Train as you fight, fight as you train. Meaning, you don't qualify with FMJ ammo, and carry HP ammo. Now, does that make things more clear? It's easy to make assumptions and play armchair quarterback.

 

[LarryC]

Did you read the RFQ. It is for 240,000 Rounds of Ammo for FLETC. That is a far cry from Millions of Rounds.

WRONG, under UNITS is MX, that means 1 unit equals 1,000 rounds. So if you order 240 units it is 240,000 rounds.

 

[LarryC]

https://marketplace.fedbid.com/fbwe...q5Ajq+RH6QAAAAAHeAAgAgTFCGg/FzzqQbJAAyVXBA0Or

1- 100,000 rounds, priced per 1000 rounds, quantity- 100= 100,000
2- 100,000 rounds, priced per 1000 rounds, quantity- 100= 100,000
3- 40,000 rounds, priced per 1000 rounds, quantity- 40= 40,000

The bid is for the total amount, priced per 1000, so 100 lots of 1000 = 100,000 rounds.

Take a second look - under UNITS it shows MX - That is used to designate that each UNIT is 1,000, so if you order 100,000 UNITS (not rounds) you are ordering 10,000,000 rounds! It is like ordering bags of sugar, you can't assume they are 5 lb bags, you must understand what a UNIT is, it could be TONS. In this case MX = 1,000. So multiply all your results by 1,000 to get the actual figures. Which is equal to 240 MILLION rounds.

 

[barackalypse]

Maybe this is just a plan to pay down the deficit. If they buy all the ammo at government wholesale prices and then sell it back to private citizens for a huge markup, then maybe they can fund that trillion dollar yearly deficit. But even 100% profit on 1.4 billion rounds it doesn't come close to 1 trillion. Hmmm...

 

[barackalypse]

US Patriot, I understand the "Train as you fight, fight as you train.", but is there a significant difference between the performance of FMJ and HP ammunition to justify the huge cost difference? Even you state that your training was done using FMJ.

But I do tend to agree with your numbers. CG has about 100,000 members (~87K with active and reserve, actually). I could see those employees easily using around 100 rounds per month or 1200 per year. That would translate to about 100 million rounds per year, if everyone in the CG were actively training. Even if it were only half of that, that is a lot of rounds.
DHS is about 20 times the size of the CG. Thus, the 1.4 billion isn't unreasonable. Especially considering the 5 year contract.

But I still have a problem justifying the HP cost for training. What are your thoughts?

 

[STEEL CORE]

If it was rifle caliber ammo, I might worry.

 

[in625shooter]

US Patriot, I understand the "Train as you fight, fight as you train.", but is there a significant difference between the performance of FMJ and HP ammunition to justify the huge cost difference? Even you state that your training was done using FMJ.


But I still have a problem justifying the HP cost for training. What are your thoughts?

As a GOV Trainer/Firearms Instructor that traines well over 1000 staff on firearms qualifications/stress courses and other classes a year I think I can speak on it just a little. I say the cost of training with the same duty round as the carry for duty is well worth it. How do you put a cost on that, Believe it or not those in Law Enforcement positions are there to protect the people of this great country. And they want to do it to the best of their ability. Training with the same round helps that ability!

If you ask anyone they will probably tell you their family is worth the expense!

 

[U.S. Patriot]

As other have stated, POI between FMJ and HP is going to differ. You do not want them training with x and carrying x. The cost is not that much more when you really break it down. It also comes down to standardization. I train with FMJ and carry JHP ammo. I personally can not afford to train with HP ammo. I would also have to match my reloads to the ammo I carry. If I could, I would train exclusively with my carry ammo, but I can only fire so many rounds of it.