Dogs coming after you/your dog when walking?

[drawer86]

Careful with the hawglegz folks.

Due to work obligations I had to walk my 2 female spaniels on leashes, one in each hand, 10pm at night on dimly lit suburban streets. In a 6 month period we were attacked 3 times, twice by rottweilers and once by a german shepherd. Notice all were very large dogs and very aggressive. In all instances I pulled my mutts to the rear and held them there with some effort as they are very protective, and started kicking the daylights out of the attackers. The rottweilers fled for their lives but the german shepherd was persistent and was killed. By kicking. I kicked it maybe 20 times in a 15-30 second time frame.

The adrenaline dump was astounding and took me 45 minutes to calm down. Each time I called animal control and got the answering machine. After the 3rd time I called the city police and was told that if I had a concealed carry permit (I did and do) I could shoot the dog. They also told me all firearm discharges in the city will result in confiscation of the firearm pending investigation. They said the length of time the firearm was confiscated depended on the investigation. So with that in mind, you need to have at least 2 firearms.

Now, having said all that, a few weeks later I read in the paper that the police had arrested the officer that was in charge of the evidence room for stealing evidence guns and selling them at gun shows. All of this took place in Cape Coral, Florida in 2002. Not too long after that we moved to acreage in Brown County, IN. There are still occasional incidents with irresponsible dog owners that need their heads caved in but I/we haven't been directly threatened by any dogs so far.

 

[NKBJ]

I used to hate having to take care of dog packs coming on our place in southeast Texas.
My dog was half sized compared to the crossbreeds running loose but his courage was just way too big.

 

[relem]

Like the idea, but I've got both hands full.

https://www.coldsteel.com/sjambok-42.html

Looks like a good solution if you can handle one when controlling your animal(s). A neighbor of ours always walks with a golf driver in his hand. It looks fairly nonthreatening and doesn't set the weenies off. Thing is; he's not walking a dog. But he's run a few off.

As an alternative to your sjambok you could also do a search for police asp batons. They're fairly inconspicuous when retracted and snap out to a real stinger when needed.

 

[relem]

There are also a number of dog defensive sprays available in an internet search as well. Most are essentially strong pepper spray. Another option is bear spray, again found online. Bear spray is supposedly stronger than dog spray because dogs are thought to have more sensitive noses. Also may be because of the standards set for manufacturers of each.

I haven't read through all the posts yet but I ran across a neat National Park Service discussion of bear safety with instructional video for using bear spray. https://www.nps.gov/yell/learn/nature/bearspray.htm

 

[drawer86]

Couple more things. In all 3 incidents I was involved the attacking dogs went for my dogs, not me. In all of them I did not hear the attackers coming until they were just a few feet away and in 2 of the incidents they came in from the side. VERY fast, more than you might imagine. Unless you have your defensive device in hand at the onset you probably won't be able to get it out before serious damage has occurred. Having said that, my attacks were at night, so if you are attacked in daylight and you are very observant you may see it coming. Again, you will under estimate how fast they are.

 

[JeepHammer]

Humans need to socialize dogs to urban areas, when the family 'Pet' isn't around other dogs, instinct takes over.

The humans could use a little training too...
While I find it amusing the first time any kind of threat comes their way, they freeze or the rush of adrenaline they want to yank a firearm on ankle biters & porch dogs.

In the days before 'Wonder 9s' I saw a guy empty a revolver at a garden snake, with kids (me one of them) not 6 feet from where he was shooting.
Emptied a .357 at an over grown worm that didn't get 6 feet from him.
Missed all 6 times, and cussed because he didn't have a reload.

I watched people lash out in wide eyes panic at 3 pound 'dogs',
I watched people swing & kick at dogs that are barking several feet away.

Fear & adrenaline are funny things, you don't rise to the occasion, you drop to the level of your active training, which is usually little to none.
You just flail & panic and don't do ANY thinking.
Notice I said ACTIVE training, outside of some military units, very few practice to deal with dogs.

Then there is the absloute sense of entitlement most urban dwellers have, they expect the world to be accident & danger proofed for them so they can parade around doing whatever they feel like, when ever they feel like.
When they find the real world... It just never goes well for them...

The idea of socializing the dog, and by extension the dog owners, was soundly rejected and the owner rejected the idea that any of the situation was created by him.
Pointing out he was walking the new dog knowing the neighbors had dogs established in the neighborhood bounced right off him.
The absloute sense of entitlement had him walking the dog around established dogs in the neighborhood, and yet when nature surfaced he was caught off guard...
I guess the neighborhood dogs didn't get a copy of the legal statutes, the nature of dogs surfaced, and he got a dose of reality.

If he stomps, kicks, pepper sprays the local dogs enough, they will become 'Socialized' to the new dog (with it's owner).
This seems like a lot more work than simply introducing the dogs socially with owners present so the stomping, kicking, pepper spraying etc. doesn't have to happen...
But that could just be me, some guys just like to do things the hard way.
Having owned hunting dogs, trained for aggression, and farm dogs most of my life, it's never failed to work, but I'm sure someone will argue the point.

 

[Rookie]

Unfortunately, my dog has been that dog a few times. Neither of my dogs are well trained, mostly a result of knowledge on my part and time to train. Our two dogs are primarily house dogs but we have a doggy door so they can have the run of the fenced back yard. One is a weird mix of many different breeds. He’s about 40lbs with a very muscular build. The other is a black lab mixed with who knows what. Both were rescues.
The lab is very home protective and animal aggressive. We tried taking them both to Barkefellers for socializing but the lab was too aggressive and out of control in group situations and the smaller dogs just wanted to hump anything and everything he saw. Needless to say, barkefellers was no help in that regard. I’ve considered sending them to professionals but that gets really expensive.
Both have managed to escape a few times and fortunately nothing bad has happened. Once my wife was walking the lab on his leash when he spotted a huge Rottweiler. My wife was caught off guard and he pulled her to the ground and she lost his leash. I was very happy the Rottweiler was well trained. My dog was going ballistic two feet away from him but he just stood there wondering wth was wrong with my dog!
I’ve wanted to try taking them to dog parks but afraid how that might turn out. Training is the answer, just not sure where to start. I have watched lots of YT videos but many of the approaches that are demonstrated just don’t work with my mutts or I’m doing them wrong.
I’m so envious of my neighbors, they have two chocolate labs and both are so friendly with everyone, hang out in the front yard just happy to be around everybody. My dogs are behind the fencing barking until I get on them to quiet down.
I still worry the lab will escape the yard or house and possibly hurt another dog or kid.
Just to be clear, both of my dogs are big babies in the house. Once I invite anyone into the house they just want to get attention and played with by the guest.
I think they need professional help, I just don’t have the cash atm.
So, if you see a black lab looking dog with a small white patch on his chest and a red collar, please don’t shoot! If he’s being aggressive, I’m okay with pepper spray or similar but no need for extremes that will do permanent harm. If he’s out and about, I’m also out looking for him and I am armed and willing to repay that harm. Stopping the aggression is the limit and the same I would do. Going beyond that, it’s going to get ugly.
Anybody know good trainers relatively inexpensive?

Matt

Part of your problem is the doggy door. It allows them to think that you own the house (well behaved) but they own the outdoors (not well behaved)

I have two pit mixes that are around 60-70 pounds. When it's time to go outside, they sit at the door, I go out first, and then I allow them to come out. This teaches them that the outside is mine, and I'm allowing them to use it. They can see any animal outside and, if they start after it, a sharp "HEY" will turn them 180 degrees because they think the animal is mine and I haven't given them permission to be around it.

If you don't control every part of their environment, they will assume they are allowed to be in control.

Same goes with feeding. They will sit with a full bowl of food, slobbering all over the place, but they won't eat it until I physically give it to them. If I decide they are done, which I do on occasion just to keep them in the habit, a sharp hey and they stop eating and walk away until I call them and give them their food again.

 

[Notalentbum]

Part of your problem is the doggy door. It allows them to think that you own the house (well behaved) but they own the outdoors (not well behaved)

I have two pit mixes that are around 60-70 pounds. When it's time to go outside, they sit at the door, I go out first, and then I allow them to come out. This teaches them that the outside is mine, and I'm allowing them to use it. They can see any animal outside and, if they start after it, a sharp "HEY" will turn them 180 degrees because they think the animal is mine and I haven't given them permission to be around it.

If you don't control every part of their environment, they will assume they are allowed to be in control.

Same goes with feeding. They will sit with a full bowl of food, slobbering all over the place, but they won't eat it until I physically give it to them. If I decide they are done, which I do on occasion just to keep them in the habit, a sharp hey and they stop eating and walk away until I call them and give them their food again.

The doggy door was a necessity due to both my wife and I gone to work from 5:30am to 4:30 pm. We’ve been able to cut that back some recently but still a couple years from retirement and home full time. Only got the smaller dog so the lab wouldn’t be lonely all day.

Matt

 

[NKBJ]

Looks like a good solution if you can handle one when controlling your animal(s). A neighbor of ours always walks with a golf driver in his hand. It looks fairly nonthreatening and doesn't set the weenies off. Thing is; he's not walking a dog. But he's run a few off.

As an alternative to your sjambok you could also do a search for police asp batons. They're fairly inconspicuous when retracted and snap out to a real stinger when needed.

A weeding hoe is pretty good.

 

[Rookie]

The doggy door was a necessity due to both my wife and I gone to work from 5:30am to 4:30 pm. We’ve been able to cut that back some recently but still a couple years from retirement and home full time. Only got the smaller dog so the lab wouldn’t be lonely all day.

Matt

I completely understand the necessity, but it's a big part of the problem. I definitely wouldn't suggest getting rid of it due to your schedule, but you'll just have to accept that your dogs are going to have some quirks that won't be able to be trained out of them. Nothing wrong with it, it is what it is.

 

[churchmouse]

In all of this they are.......in the end......only DOGS. They are animals. Domesticated for the most part. If you run across Fido out in the woods running with his daytime pack buddys he is for sure an animal and may attack you. Comes home when the humans call him in after they get home from work and he is Fido again. What rookie describes is spot on.

I have seen this. Many have seen this.

 

[Shawn76]

Keep in mind you better have done everything possible to retreat before pulling a gun because it goes down hill quick when dealing with a dog..... always beware where the nearest school zone is also!

I just went though this with a neighbors dog and them are words of advice the officer gave me when he showed up!

I was in a school zone but school was not in session. Usually had problems at night.
I was told if it was necessary and no other options then do what you have to.
I did leave out that the owner did threaten to shoot me when she seen me start to upholster my firearm. She luckily got the dog that was at my feet about to attack me,her response was he just wanted petted.
This same dog has went after cops and code enforcement. It seriously had no place in the city. It needed put down it was so aggressive.

 

[Dean C.]

Kimber Pepperblaster , uses a OC gel and a charge of some sort to deliver the pepper gel to the target. After my father's run in with a Breed of Peace a couple years ago with our Chocolate Lab, our dog was bitten and poor Scout had to go to the vet due to the wound immediately getting infected and spend 3 days in our tub he was so traumatized.

Anyways the Pepperblaster works really well and gives you two shots. I would have to personally be being attacked to shoot a dog in town, but that being said I really like my Spyderco Civilian for close up work on aggressive dogs. (You will probably get bitten but the dog won't walk away that's all I will say)

Kimber Pepper Blaster - Red https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003L75SSI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_JDfdDb8Q3P1B1

 

[relem]

Kudos to Rookie with the well disciplined Pit Bulls (American Staffordshire Terriers?). I don't think the most of us can accomplish that level of behavior. How do you walk them and is your yard fenced? By the by, I really like the breed.

With reply to post about dog doors. We have been using dog doors for 40+ years now, both in the city and rural areas in 4 homes. Yes, some have been barkers at other animals and strange people during the day. Actually, some of the stay-at-home moms have said it lends to feeling of security. They don't do much of it when we are home, only if something really out of the ordinary happens. For example, one night in Texas our big dog lit off about the front of the house. Sure enough, someone was trying to get into my car. We have had some 10 dogs over 48 years, usually 2 to 4 at a time. We have 3 dog doors in our current home and are on our last dog.

What we learned right off was you cannot have dog doors if you do not have physical barriers that, for sure, contain your animals. We had a few problems in that regard at first. Walk your perimeters. Look for digging starts or gaps. One 80lb dog could actually climb a 5 foot chain link fence. Fortunately, he just wanted to visit the Yorkshire terrier and her pups next door. We had to modify the 5 foot fence with 3 feet of chicken wire at the top, when he passed the chain link, the chicken wire would lean back and dump him into the enclosed area.

I live in a suburban neighborhood in Alabama now. We do have some dog attack problems in town but, our animal control officers generally stay on top of it. When I walk with my wife and our small dog I use trekking poles about 5 foot long with a weighted hard rubber tip. Got a real whip to them as well. Fortunately, all our dog walking neighbors are responsible and control their dogs.

 

[JeepHammer]

In all of this they are.......in the end......only DOGS. They are animals. Domesticated for the most part. If you run across Fido out in the woods running with his daytime pack buddys he is for sure an animal and may attack you. Comes home when the humans call him in after they get home from work and he is Fido again. What rookie describes is spot on.

I have seen this. Many have seen this.

Pack mentality doesn't stop with dogs...

A PERSON (Singular) can be rational & use higher thinking.
PEOPLE (group/pack) will always reduce to most base instinct.

You can't get people to differentiate between barking/growling charge/halt (display) and an actual attack.
Equate this to some crap talking, chest stuck out idiot to someone that actually attacks you.
When someone intends to attack, there is little to no posturing/talking.

What I never get over is PEOPLE thinking dogs, cats, snakes, birds etc are going to conform to 'Human' standards,
The birds won't crap on their car, the dogs are going to respect property lines, same with snakes in the yard, etc.
When they freak out, all I say is "Welcome to the real world"...

Animals will be animals, the clueless will do stupid things, A-holes will do what ever they can get away with before laws (human or physics) catches up with them...
Either you control the impulse and socialize, or you let nature take it's course.

 

[Bullgoose]

After further review

Carry a can of wasp spray it is cheaper than dog spray and shoots farther works on people also.

Ok after further review wasp spray will not work. Use some bear spray.

 

[Tactically Fat]

Carry a can of wasp spray... works on people also.

No. No it doesn't.

To whomever reads this: Do. Not. Believe. This.

 

[Sigblitz]

No. No it doesn't.

To whomever reads this: Do. Not. Believe. This.

I just bought 10 cans on Walmart.com

 

[AngryRooster]

Carry a can of wasp spray it is cheaper than dog spray and shoots farther works on people also.

Bad advice for many reasons...

 

[churchmouse]

No. No it doesn't.

To whomever reads this: Do. Not. Believe. This.

A few years back this would work. But they have emasculated this product so much you have to score a direct soaking hit on a wasp to even slow it down. Back then you could drop one in mid flight. Not now.

Buddy fired some off into the wind and wore it in and around his eyes/face. He had to go into the emergency room. But that was then. The world has changed.....a lot.