Electrical question......

[actaeon277]

Yeah, I had a buddy that was electrician at UPS. He use to hate when storms would knock out power and back-up didnt kick in. Said it would take them hours to restart conveyors because of juice required for start-up.

I love it when they "don't have the money (or time)" to change UPS batteries.
Then you lose power and the lose so much profit they could have changed every battery 10x over.

 

[Mgderf]

NEVER assume that ANYTHING is "properly wired".

Decades ago I was working for a different company remodeling an 1800's duplex that had been remodeled time and time again.
Part of our renovation was to rewire the entire building.

I watched the local electric company not only pull the meter from the building, they dropped the wire from the pole. No energy to the building at all...or that's what everyone assumed.

After the power disconnect, I was handed a pair of side-cut pliers and a flashlight. I was instructed to cut every wire visible in the basement and remove all old wire.

45 minutes later I'm snipping and pulling, rinse and repeat.
All of a sudden I hit a live wire.
When cut, it "popped", and burned the pliers I was using.

Upon further inspection it was learned that someone, at some point, had illegally tied a wire to the electrical system of the next door neighbor.
Thank goodness it was only 110v, and I didn't get "bit", but it taught me a lesson.
Unless you did the work, don't assume it was done properly.

 

[churchmouse]

All I'm trying to say is, it SCARES me when untrained people work on electricity.
Take an adult education course. Hire someone.

I'd like to say I don't scare easily, and this does.
Maybe because of around 40 years working on electrical.

I worked on/with electricity every day in my trade. 24V up to 440 3 ph and have experience with Mega power DC drives. I stayed away from live DC in the zillions of volts range () as I have seen it do some seriously weird and melt/destroy stuff in a foundry setting. Its insane and it will reach out and get you.
115 is not fun. It hurts. Ask me how I know.
I try not to do any residential wire work "HOT"
Yes, it can be done if you don't ground yourself and become a completed circuit. I have actually done this experiment. But I was a seasoned (Salt/pepper) professional.....

A/C is not hard to work with. But it will kill you if you ask it to.

 

[Mgderf]

You are grounded by standing on the ground. Touch the hot side of a light switch with just one hand. It's still going to bite you.

Not so.
Most rubber soled tennis shoes will insulate you from being grounded.
Now, standing barefoot on wet concrete...ZAP!

 

[churchmouse]

Not so.
Most rubber soled tennis shoes will insulate you from being grounded.
Now, standing barefoot on wet concrete...ZAP!

This was the experiment. The Redwing Logger's I was wearing had a composite sole. I used the back of my hand to brush against a tested live wire. Not touching anything and no hit. If I had touched any real ground, it would have hurt.

 

[jkaetz]

The blue is common in ceiling fans for the light kit.

Really you have to understand the colors can be anything.

Green and White are the only ones that are somewhat constant, and the white can be used at times for hot. It should be marked when that happens, but that doesn't happen a lot of times.

Yeah I never trust colors. I trust NCV and metered readings. Sometimes even instructions.

 

[churchmouse]

Yeah I never trust colors. I trust NCV and metered readings. Sometimes even instructions.

Yes always look at the diagram because China is color blind.

 

[Leo]

This was the experiment. The Redwing Logger's I was wearing had a composite sole. I used the back of my hand to brush against a tested live wire. Not touching anything and no hit. If I had touched any real ground, it would have hurt.

I was required to buy certified electrician's shoes that had an extra layer of certified dielectric insulation and a design that did not use any nails or steel shanks in the construction. They have a green stripe around the soles.

People with shoes like that still manage to get burned or blown up. The best safety equipment is between your ears. Think through every step of the process, and if you get distracted, stop, back up and think it through again. Just like when handling firearms, reloading, power tools, and a host of other things. I never let anyone rush me. I am not a slacker, I know how fast to work safely and efficiently.

 

[Leo]

Yes always look at the diagram because China is color blind.

And Blue is ground in old German equipment, where green can be a conductor.

 

[actaeon277]

Edit: And you're retired man! Let it go!

How?
I still can't do this "sleep at night... wake during day"
Can't figure it out.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

If you're already going to get someone involved, get them in loved before running the wires. There are some things that running the wires in a certain manner make the job easier.

It's a simple circuit. 3 outlets on two studs that are next to each other, I may get froggy and add a switched 4th. It's a small "pantry" I'm turning into a baking center for my mixer and other crap but need outlets. One outlet below counter and two above, if I add the switched fourth the switch will be next to one of the above counter outlets and last on the circuit. Plan was to run up from the floor to the low outlet, a line up from there to an outlet right above, then over to the last. If I add a switched 4th the switch will be right after that then up to the last. Only reason I'm running another circuit is because it would be easier than tying into an existing one and I have plenty of room in the box.

All I'm trying to say is, it SCARES me when untrained people work on electricity.
Take an adult education course. Hire someone.

I'd like to say I don't scare easily, and this does.
Maybe because of around 40 years working on electrical.

It scares me as well, I know just enough to know I don't know squat. I'm comfortable replacing an outlet/switch/light by myself without supervision, but that's about it. And this thread has me rethinking that.

 

[Leo]

I suppose it's possible, although I assumed the power was off, and touched the hot side of the switch with my right index finger, and about wet myself. Haven't done that again.

I would like to see a demonstration though. You know, just for research and all.

One thing about residential, is you can never count on balanced circuits, that is every circuit having it's own power and return(neutral) conductor. I have had circuits completely dead, as in the fuse is out of the panel and laying on the floor dead. I have the white wire (neutral) in the tested dead circuit open to make a splice. Then maybe the refrigerator on another circuit tries to kick on, and suddenly, that normally safe neutral that was dead a minute ago, is the return path for another circuit and since it is not longer connected to the neutral bus in the panel, it is connected to you.

Don't even get me started on the BS "grounded B phase" version of three phase I have run into in Indiana. A rusty piece of conduit can put 240V potential between the pipe and the box, Been there done that.

 

[churchmouse]

One thing about residential, is you can never count on balanced circuits, that is every circuit having it's own power and return(neutral) conductor. I have had circuits completely dead, as in the fuse is out of the panel and laying on the floor dead. I have the white wire (neutral) in the tested dead circuit open to make a splice. Then maybe the refrigerator on another circuit tries to kick on, and suddenly, that normally safe neutral that was dead a minute ago, is the return path for another circuit and since it is not longer connected to the neutral bus in the panel, it is connected to you.

Don't even get me started on the BS "grounded B phase" version of three phase I have run into in Indiana. A rusty piece of conduit can put 240V potential between the pipe and the box, Been there done that.

240 single in a rural trailer park powering the A/C unit. I had not removed the panel yet and found the flex duct return had come off the floor register in the trailer. Probably an animal under the trailer. Happens all the time so I reach in holding the tornado strap which is a very good ground and grab the duct. When I get my vision back I was laying on the ground with the trailers owner asking me if I was OK. No I was not. When I gathered my senses some 30m minutes later I looked in the power panel and the ground (green) had been removed from the AC chassis. The wire in the flex became the ground and I completed the circuit through my chest when I grabbed the tornado strap to balance as I over extended to get the duct to reconnect it. I measured 145 volts across the wire to the strap. I caught all of that across my chest.
Turns out the compressor was failing to "GROUND" and some dop weed had the ground path unhooked so I became the path.
Trust no one. People do stupid **** all the time either from being an idiot or ignorant or lazy. Possibly all 3.

Electricity will kill you if given the slightest opportunity.

I was neat the hell up sore for days.