Explane the point of bad levers when quality ars have buttons on both sides?

[Cameramonkey]

Are they getting more popular in the real world? Or the wanna be world wearing 511's at Applebee's?
Both of my sons are issued M4's without BAD lever options or other junk hanging off their rifle.

Oh and both of them are left handed.

Not saying you are wrong, but the BAD is for righties. Us lefties dont need a BAD because we can reach the release with our trigger finger.

Now we DO need (OK, LIKE) these.
https://troyind.com/products/ambidextrous-magazine-release

 

[OurDee]

I like a bad for range use, but.... It is not the way I was trained. So, I went back to my caveman ways.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Not saying you are wrong, but the BAD is for righties. Us lefties dont need a BAD because we can reach the release with our trigger finger.

Now we DO need (OK, LIKE) these.
https://troyind.com/products/ambidextrous-magazine-release

If the 90% of the world truly needed it, 100% of the rifles issued to our Armed Services would have it.
Purple for the 511 Applebee's crowd....

 

[gmcttr]

A bad lever is very handy when you are shooting an unsupported prone match requiring single loading and you are in the sling. Otherwise...meh.

 

[jinks]

https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/ar15-ambidextrous-lower

 

[jrh84]

A bad lever is very handy when you are shooting an unsupported prone match requiring single loading and you are in the sling. Otherwise...meh.

Yes, yes it is. I've got one on my service rifle. When your magazine springs start getting weak, you might get failure to lock back after the last round. More of a problem with my single feed mag, but that can be fixed easily with a 30 round mag spring.

 

[76Too]

The bad lever is a bad idea , I've seen 3 NEGLIGENT discharges due to those things

FIFY

 

[Ggreen]

Cool. Thanks. Anyone else? OP made it sound like I could buy just ANY quality AR and get it.

Adding to the list Umbrella Corp, ADM

 

[Ggreen]

A bad lever is very handy when you are shooting an unsupported prone match requiring single loading and you are in the sling. Otherwise...meh.

This is where I've seen nd's

 

[Ggreen]

Are they getting more popular in the real world? Or the wanna be world wearing 511's at Applebee's?
Both of my sons are issued M4's without BAD lever options or other junk hanging off their rifle.

Oh and both of them are left handed.

The mistake here is thinking the military issues the best equipment. It's more a military thing to issue outdated mediocrity.

I've been through my stages of laughing at tactical Timmy's, but then I started taking live fire classes and getting just run over by some. So are santan, umbrella, ADM, radian and others gaining real world traction yes. Is mil/Leo the only real world, definitely not.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

The mistake here is thinking the military issues the best equipment. It's more a military thing to issue outdated mediocrity.

I've been through my stages of laughing at tactical Timmy's, but then I started taking live fire classes and getting just run over by some. So are santan, umbrella, ADM, radian and others gaining real world traction yes. Is mil/Leo the only real world, definitely not.

I wasn't laughing at anyone....
The Marine Corps never issued me any mediocre equipment in the years I served and deployed with. And both of my sons "one two two years as a 0352 and the other 4 years as a 0372".
As infantry Marines never have cried about equipment issued to them after basic and SOI. Both of their service rifles still deliver them scores of 330-340's twice each year at grass week and quals. And thats with a 16" M4 a 4 pwr Trijion and SS109 ammo out to 500....
And lets not forget with those that put out bids to buy the equipment a business needs..... Its the lowest cost that meets the required specs for the item that is being bought. No one specs grade 8 bolts and accepts grade 2 in its place. Especially Uncle Sam..

So tell me, I'll bite...
What is real world to you?.

 

[Ggreen]

No one specs grade 8 bolts and accepts grade 2 in its place. Especially Uncle Sam..

So tell me, I'll bite...
What is real world to you?.

As a former uncle Sam worker I can assure you he both specs and accepts a lot of bad gear equipment. But this isn't the thread for that.

Real world is whatever you use a gun for. Thinking that mil and Leo is the only real world in gun craft is closed minded. They are both bound by convention and tradition, and subject to fraud and cronyism. The everyday real world that I train for is generally a mix of competition shooting, indoor defensive tactics, and family egress.

Does it matter if a gun or component is used by armed forces or le? Only for collectors and larpers, both are fun hobbies though.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Real world is whatever you use a gun for. Thinking that mil and Leo is the only real world in gun craft is closed minded. They are both bound by convention and tradition, and subject to fraud and cronyism. The everyday real world that I train for is generally a mix of competition shooting, indoor defensive tactics, and family egress.

Does it matter if a gun or component is used by armed forces or le? Only for collectors and larpers, both are fun hobbies though.

If you believe that is real world we definitely are not going to agree, You are missing those whizzing and snapping incoming noises that are beneficial to how one will react when things go hot and black... A few months ago my youngest did his Jungle Warfare School in the jungles of Okinawa, After a few weeks in the jungle they finished up with a 48 hour live fire with each Marine shooting over 2,400 rounds through his service rifle. With all that it includes, its as close to real world as one can get without boys dying.

View attachment 87353

Does a gun or equipment matter to me if its been through the mill in the Armed Services you ask? Damn right it matters to me.
If the Army or Marine Corps Infantry has run it through the grinder I am certain it will run like it should. And thats coming from a guy that was issued an M16A1 rifle...

And yes they are fun, shoot what you got.... And its not that i'm picking on you, I just have different views from the careers that I have done in life.

 

[Ggreen]

If you believe that is real world we definitely are not going to agree, You are missing those whizzing and snapping incoming noises that are beneficial to how one will react when things go hot and black...

Real world civilian firearm employment is not jungle warfare. It's an armed robbery, a car jack, a home invasion. You're not worth a darn with a 20" m16 in 99.9999 percent of real world gun craft. In fact most military training, including long range marksmanship if used as a real world civilian will lead to a murder charge. Cqb defense and family egress are more real world. I have to deprogram a lot of veterans who are trying to make it as civilian aircraft techs. Military training rarely of ever translates into civilian roles. It's a foundation, but it's not real world, it's that world.

Real world is the world you are operating in. Do you need to know squad tactics as a civilian, no. Any marksmanship feats will be done in competition or hunting, and deer are not whizzing them back. Civilian firearm encounters very rarely extend beyond 1 magazine.

Back on topic, mil spec ar15 lowers have been surpassed by better options. And bad levers lead to negligent discharges.

 

[Cameramonkey]

CP, I think you are confusing realities. (and to be brutally honest, are coming off as quite snooty and condescending, whether you intend to or not.) By your logic we should only ever buy high end, military proven gear, no matter how we will use it. That is what I am hearing from you based on your descriptions and examples.

So a "cheap" gun that has repeatedly proven itself on the range in 400 round visits, including 2 and 3 gun matches, possibly Appleseeds and/or Revere's riders in various weather conditions, still isnt worthy of trusting with your life in a home invasion, truck gun defensive situation where you likely wont even empty the first mag.

My "real world" isnt 2400 rounds in a weekend, dragging it through the mud. So why do you appear to try to hold all of us (and our gear) to that standard you provided? I dont need a rifle to hold up to 2400 rounds in 2 days. I need it to hold up for a max of 2 MAGAZINES in probably less than 2 minutes. Most ARs will do that.

Am I saying I'd take my frankenrifle into a battle theater by choice F*** NO! But I'm not going to pay top dollar when I cant justify it.

 

[Ggreen]

This 300 dollar lower eliminates the safety hazards associated with a bad lever. 1 b.a.d. Induced negligent overhead barrier strike would cover the cost difference, that's best case for an ND.

Not trying to be snobbish, but if you feel the need for a lever you should really consider this safer option, plus it's a sick nasty piece of gear that's always a hit at the BBQ, which is a valid point

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Real world civilian firearm employment is not jungle warfare. It's an armed robbery, a car jack, a home invasion. You're not worth a darn with a 20" m16 in 99.9999 percent of real world gun craft. In fact most military training, including long range marksmanship if used as a real world civilian will lead to a murder charge. Cqb defense and family egress are more real world. I have to deprogram a lot of veterans who are trying to make it as civilian aircraft techs. Military training rarely of ever translates into civilian roles. It's a foundation, but it's not real world, it's that world.

Real world is the world you are operating in. Do you need to know squad tactics as a civilian, no. Any marksmanship feats will be done in competition or hunting, and deer are not whizzing them back. Civilian firearm encounters very rarely extend beyond 1 magazine.

Back on topic, mil spec ar15 lowers have been surpassed by better options. And bad levers lead to negligent discharges.

Loads of strawman & hard-on in your post.....

Hundreds of MOS's cross right over to the civilian world..... Out of 9 of my family members in the last two generations that served in the Army, Navy or Marine Corps all but 2 used there MOS to go to work in the Civilian world. And the two that didnt were drafted and were put where the Army and Navy wanted them to serve. Not where they wanted to work at for 40 years.

You didnt serve did you? Its rhetorical..... Good Day...

 

[CKW]

Yoiu boys are getting a little testy in here tonight....

 

[Clay Pigeon]

CP, I think you are confusing realities. (and to be brutally honest, are coming off as quite snooty and condescending, whether you intend to or not.) By your logic we should only ever buy high end, military proven gear, no matter how we will use it. That is what I am hearing from you based on your descriptions and examples.

So a "cheap" gun that has repeatedly proven itself on the range in 400 round visits, including 2 and 3 gun matches, possibly Appleseeds and/or Revere's riders in various weather conditions, still isnt worthy of trusting with your life in a home invasion, truck gun defensive situation where you likely wont even empty the first mag.

My "real world" isnt 2400 rounds in a weekend, dragging it through the mud. So why do you appear to try to hold all of us (and our gear) to that standard you provided? I dont need a rifle to hold up to 2400 rounds in 2 days. I need it to hold up for a max of 2 MAGAZINES in probably less than 2 minutes. Most ARs will do that.

Am I saying I'd take my frankenrifle into a battle theater by choice F*** NO! But I'm not going to pay top dollar when I cant justify it.

Its funny that you think that I come across as are coming off as quite snooty and condescending...LOL you should read some of your posts..

You apparently missed when I posted***,
Does a gun or equipment matter to me if its been through the mill in the Armed Services you ask? Damn right it matters to me.

And where did I post Military is High End???
And its always funny here when someone disagrees with others here ON A DISCUSSION FORUM...

 

[Ggreen]

Loads of strawman & hard-on in your post.....

Hundreds of MOS's cross right over to the civilian world..... Out of 9 of my family members in the last two generations that served in the Army, Navy or Marine Corps all but 2 used there MOS to go to work in the Civilian world. And the two that didnt were drafted and were put where the Army and Navy wanted them to serve. Not where they wanted to work at for 40 years.

You didnt serve did you? Its rhetorical..... Good Day...

I did serve, honorably, volunteering during a time of war. I volunteer, successfully, as a mentor to help vets transition into being successes in the civilian job market. My brother ended up homeless because he failed to re-engage after he got out, my sister is a navy veteran who made the switch. , 3/3 of my generation served.

Again though, military training is not real world for us, it's that world. Real world is where you live now.