Explane the point of bad levers when quality ars have buttons on both sides?

[jagee]

I have 1 AR with a BAD lever because it was on it when I bought it.

 

[Hohn]

There is never an excuse for a bad lever.

This. A BAD lever is for someone who hasn't had enough NDs. They are banned by some instructors and not without cause.

 

[drm-hp]

I believe that most of you are missing the point of the "Battery Assistance Device ", or bad lever.
It was developed for right handed "Across the Course" shooters. When utilizing optics mounted onto the upper you can not easily or safely reach around to push the button to send the bolt into battery with the right hand. Remember that the shooter is in a tight sling, with a shooting glove or mitt on the left hand.
As others have pointed out, it may not be the best addition for every purpose. For us, it is a safety device.

 

[Rookie]

I believe that most of you are missing the point of the "Battery Assistance Device ", or bad lever.
It was developed for right handed "Across the Course" shooters. When utilizing optics mounted onto the upper you can not easily or safely reach around to push the button to send the bolt into battery with the right hand. Remember that the shooter is in a tight sling, with a shooting glove or mitt on the left hand.
As others have pointed out, it may not be the best addition for every purpose. For us, it is a safety device.

I'm not familiar with what you're talking about. Is the shooter changing mags?

 

[Clay Pigeon]

I believe that most of you are missing the point of the "Battery Assistance Device ", or bad lever.
It was developed for right handed "Across the Course" shooters. When utilizing optics mounted onto the upper you can not easily or safely reach around to push the button to send the bolt into battery with the right hand. Remember that the shooter is in a tight sling, with a shooting glove or mitt on the left hand.
As others have pointed out, it may not be the best addition for every purpose. For us, it is a safety device.

I'm a long term HP shooter myself.
I don't see how putting a finger inside of the trigger guard to activate anything besides to pull trigger would be construed as a safety device.....
In some venues putting your finger inside of the trigger guard would get you tossed from the firing line..... Thats the reason its called a trigger guard....

 

[Ggreen]

I'm not familiar with what you're talking about. Is the shooter changing mags?

Sometimes

 

[gmcttr]

I'm a long term HP shooter myself.
I don't see how putting a finger inside of the trigger guard to activate anything besides to pull trigger would be construed as a safety device.....
In some venues putting your finger inside of the trigger guard would get you tossed from the firing line..... Thats the reason its called a trigger guard....

And this shows your lack of knowledge or training with a BAD when used for the purpose drm-hp and I described.

My finger does not go inside the trigger guard, the bad extends beyond it and only takes a light touch to activate.

I either stroke it downward with my thumb or press down or in with my trigger finger extended straight out. If my finger were to "slip" off the BAD it hits the front side of the trigger guard and wouldn't enter the trigger guard.

Don't blame the tool for people's misuse. Should we remove the trigger so it too can't be misused causing a ND. As with any tool, learning and using the proper technique is key to safety.

 

[drm-hp]

Yes, in rapid sitting and rapid prone you are required to change the magazine once per string of ten.
I am not going to argue with anyone here. If you want to train differently feel free, this is America, you have a choice. Also, when the bolt is back the lever protrudes the vertical plane of the trigger guard slightly. You can feel the end of the lever as a bump just below the large button of the magazine release. You never go near the trigger, or into the guard.

 

[Ggreen]

I don't understand why you wouldn't just use a good ambi lower to build a match rifle. You're already probably dropping 2k+ on a max spec upper and optic. Maybe just not having exposure to ambi lowers as they are kind of niche, or I can understand if they are against the rules in a service rifle match. I imagine if a bad lever is legal a safer ambi lower should be legal.

 

[churchmouse]

And this shows your lack of knowledge or training with a BAD when used for the purpose drm-hp and I described.

My finger does not go inside the trigger guard, the bad extends beyond it and only takes a light touch to activate.

I either stroke it downward with my thumb or press down or in with my trigger finger extended straight out. If my finger were to "slip" off the BAD it hits the front side of the trigger guard and wouldn't enter the trigger guard.

Don't blame the tool for people's misuse. Should we remove the trigger so it too can't be misused causing a ND. As with any tool, learning and using the proper technique is key to safety.

Yes, in rapid sitting and rapid prone you are required to change the magazine once per string of ten.
I am not going to argue with anyone here. If you want to train differently feel free, this is America, you have a choice. Also, when the bolt is back the lever protrudes the vertical plane of the trigger guard slightly. You can feel the end of the lever as a bump just below the large button of the magazine release. You never go near the trigger, or into the guard.

Bingo.
Arguing just for the sake of arguing will not solve/prove anything. A properly installed BAD does not require you to put you finger inside the trigger guard. I treat them exactly like I treat my Serpa…...trigger finger is indexed outside of and in front of the guard. I have had a slam fire.... never did get that figured out. Never had a ND due to using them.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

And this shows your lack of knowledge or training with a BAD when used for the purpose drm-hp and I described.

My finger does not go inside the trigger guard, the bad extends beyond it and only takes a light touch to activate.

I either stroke it downward with my thumb or press down or in with my trigger finger extended straight out. If my finger were to "slip" off the BAD it hits the front side of the trigger guard and wouldn't enter the trigger guard.

Don't blame the tool for people's misuse. Should we remove the trigger so it too can't be misused causing a ND. As with any tool, learning and using the proper technique is key to safety.

Like anything else, do what you feel comfortable with.....
Now me,I've been round long enough to blame the tool when its necessary. And like I posted earlier in this thread if in fact this was a needed tool it would come as standard equipment on the masses of AR's and M16's being built for the 90% of the buyers that are right handed.
And you might want to look at Troys BAD lever....
And lets not kid ourselves that most of the masses dont have a index finger in the trigger guard when using the lever then add gloves to the mix..... Its own name says it all.
I would never call a discharge accidental on a rifle with a BAD lever installed, its negligent plan and simple.... No Thanks.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

Bingo.
Arguing just for the sake of arguing will not solve/prove anything. .

Who is arguing here? Is this not a discussion forum????
When everyone agrees there is no discussion.....

[video=youtube_share;QuFgP2bfECQ]https://youtu.be/QuFgP2bfECQ[/video]

 

[Rookie]

Yes, in rapid sitting and rapid prone you are required to change the magazine once per string of ten.
I am not going to argue with anyone here. If you want to train differently feel free, this is America, you have a choice. Also, when the bolt is back the lever protrudes the vertical plane of the trigger guard slightly. You can feel the end of the lever as a bump just below the large button of the magazine release. You never go near the trigger, or into the guard.

I assume you are changing the mag with your left hand?

 

[Clay Pigeon]

I assume you are changing the mag with your left hand?

View attachment 87397

 

[Ggreen]

I assume you are changing the mag with your left hand?

From what I've seen it is faster to load right so that you don't have to fully resling. For right handed shooters. I'm just a casual hp shooter.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

My brother was a southpaw so teaching him to play a guitar, shoot and box was a real challenge. I used to find myself in a southpaw stance when sparing or a straight up street fight. Did it with out thinking.
Taught him to play one of my guitars upside down leaving the strings for a regular righty. He had a most unique style of playing and it worked well for him.

When I was a kid, I had the first set of boxing gloves in the neighborhood. It worked out well if I was boxing with one of my buddies. I'd wear the left glove and only block with my right hand, and they'd wear the right glove and only block with the left hand.

 

[Clay Pigeon]

This. A BAD lever is for someone who hasn't had enough NDs. They are banned by some instructors and not without cause.

Endorsed by Tactical Response...

 

[drm-hp]

I don't understand why you wouldn't just use a good ambi lower to build a match rifle. You're already probably dropping 2k+ on a max spec upper and optic. Maybe just not having exposure to ambi lowers as they are kind of niche, or I can understand if they are against the rules in a service rifle match. I imagine if a bad lever is legal a safer ambi lower should be legal.

You discuss two different rifles in your post.
A match rifle has not many rules to follow and the lower you discuss would probably be legal.
On a competitive service rifle this this would not be legal. It must look like a service rifle on the outside with certain exceptions as described by the sanctioning body.(CMP or NRA)
When shooting rapid fire strings the rifle and you are attached to the left arm with the sling and your left hand on the rifle. When you are in position the anchor point of the right shoulder completes the triangle.
You start rolled slightly to the left with magazines on the deck, once targets appear you insert magazine with the hand while rolling back into shooting position. While you are adjusting for npa you send the bolt into battery. This repeats itself during the mandatory magazine change.
During all of this the left hand never leaves the forend, if you tried to do the magazine change with the right hand (the only hand not in a bulky, padded glove or mitt) then got out of position to send the bolt home you will not make the time allotment.
As said earlier, this is a safely device for us.

 

[churchmouse]

You discuss two different rifles in your post.
A match rifle has not many rules to follow and the lower you discuss would probably be legal.
On a competitive service rifle this this would not be legal. It must look like a service rifle on the outside with certain exceptions as described by the sanctioning body.(CMP or NRA)
When shooting rapid fire strings the rifle and you are attached to the left arm with the sling and your left hand on the rifle. When you are in position the anchor point of the right shoulder completes the triangle.
You start rolled slightly to the left with magazines on the deck, once targets appear you insert magazine with the hand while rolling back into shooting position. While you are adjusting for npa you send the bolt into battery. This repeats itself during the mandatory magazine change.
During all of this the left hand never leaves the forend, if you tried to do the magazine change with the right hand (the only hand not in a bulky, padded glove or mitt) then got out of position to send the bolt home you will not make the time allotment.
As said earlier, this is a safely device for us.

I think we can all agree to disagree as to your personal views on this add on piece. Solid points have been made. Opinions have been expressed shared and discussed. No minds were changed or even altered in the course of this thread. As with most things once a mind is made up....it generally stays made up.
This is another add on piece that through user error things have happened. Just like the misuse of the trigger human error comes into play.