Explosions at Ariana Grande concert in Manchester, England. Fatalities confirmed

[Benp]

I hope we can agree that the goal should be finding the ones who believe in killing infidels and leaving alone the ones who don't.

I agree that people who aren't trying to kill other people aren't a problem.

 

[JollyMon]

I agree that people who aren't trying to kill other people aren't a problem.

What about the people who are killing the people who are killing people? You decided which side it starts.

 

[Benp]

What about the people who are killing the people who are killing people? You decided which side it starts.

If someone is killing others illegally, according to the law then yes, they need to be stopped. It just depends on what it takes to stop them.

 

[hog slayer]

Interestingly enough, the majority of actual practicing Muslims and Islamic leaders disagree with your bigoted view of Islam.

Either way, for purposes of combatting terrorism, I hope we can agree that the goal should be finding the ones who believe in killing infidels and leaving alone the ones who don't.

Majority means very little. Reality exists. The Koran is the textual directive for the religion. "radical" and "extremism" are words for Americans much like "fairness" for a 6 year old. You cannot study the Koran and miss the violence. You've always struck me is well read and intelligent. Please view the Koran teachings before using the word bigot to describe one who opposes its teachings. I do not think it an accurate definition for Ben.

 

[T.Lex]

Majority means very little. Reality exists. The Koran is the textual directive for the religion. "radical" and "extremism" are words for Americans much like "fairness" for a 6 year old. You cannot study the Koran and miss the violence. You've always struck me is well read and intelligent. Please view the Koran teachings before using the word bigot to describe one who opposes its teachings. I do not think it an accurate definition for Ben.

I have read it, along with other books about it.

If we're talking texts, then it is fair to say that the Christian Bible, and the teachings therefrom, is incompatible with western government.

I do not know Ben. I do not know if he is a bigot or ignorant or otherwise. It is an inaccurate description to say, "If someone follows it completely then they must kill the infidels. While some do not follow it completely and choose not to kill infidels we call those people peaceful, but the religion is based on not being tolerant of others and is about world domination."

Not only is it inaccurate, in the functional sense, it is counterproductive.

 

[churchmouse]

This is a very emotional topic.
It has me twisted up as it has others.
Just a note/reminder that we keep the conversation civil so it can continue.
No lines have been crossed yet. Just a reminder.

Thanks.

 

[Route 45]

Which begs the question, what is the difference between "radical" Islam and "regular"?

The vast majority of Muslims denounce the seeds and fruit of "radical Islam," which leads to the conclusion that "regular" Islam is not the problem.

Survey: 44 Percent Of Muslims In Europe Are Fundamentalists | The Daily Caller

“These descriptions are very ugly, it is offensive and an insult to our religion. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it.” - Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, President of Turkey

 

[ArcadiaGP]

hottest take so far.

 

[hog slayer]

This is a very emotional topic.
It has me twisted up as it has others.
Just a note/reminder that we keep the conversation civil so it can continue.
No lines have been crossed yet. Just a reminder.

Thanks.

gravy

 

[hog slayer]

I have read it, along with other books about it.

If we're talking texts, then it is fair to say that the Christian Bible, and the teachings therefrom, is incompatible with western government.

I do not know Ben. I do not know if he is a bigot or ignorant or otherwise. It is an inaccurate description to say, "If someone follows it completely then they must kill the infidels. While some do not follow it completely and choose not to kill infidels we call those people peaceful, but the religion is based on not being tolerant of others and is about world domination."

Not only is it inaccurate, in the functional sense, it is counterproductive.

how is this (Ben's statement) inaccurate?

 

[T.Lex]

Survey: 44 Percent Of Muslims In Europe Are Fundamentalists | The Daily Caller

“These descriptions are very ugly, it is offensive and an insult to our religion. There is no moderate or immoderate Islam. Islam is Islam and that’s it.” - Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, President of Turkey

1) More than half of American Christians would probably describe themselves as fundamental or practicing. Yet, I do not see Christian slavery, husbands beating wives, or stoning of adulterous people. (Well, not in the biblical definition of "stoned.")

2) Erdogan, as leader of a still-democratic Islamic nation, saying that Islam is Islam rather obviously means that his view is that it is compatible with democracy. Within "regular" Islam, the islamofascists are generally considered non-Islamic.

Again, the point is that it is important to treat the threats to civilization differently from the non-threats.

 

[Benp]

.

 

[JTScribe]

1) More than half of American Christians would probably describe themselves as fundamental or practicing. Yet, I do not see Christian slavery, husbands beating wives, or stoning of adulterous people. (Well, not in the biblical definition of "stoned.")

Argument not in evidence. Christianity as a religion was founded on the teachings of Jesus as transcribed in the New Testament. Please cite relevant sections of New Testament verses supporting your position.

 

[printcraft]

My understanding, consideration and tolerance of bull**** decreases with every event.

Who's fault is that?

 

[hog slayer]

Islam is not a threat to an Islamic society. To everyone else, beware.

 

[T.Lex]

how is this (Ben's statement) inaccurate?

Hundreds of millions of Muslims follow Islam (more or less) completely and do not advocate for killing "infidels" as he appears to be using the word. In fact, they consider the islamofascists to be infidels or apostates. The latter meaning someone who is Muslim but has rejected Islam. The Islamic states that fight Daesh do so BECAUSE they are Muslim and do not consider Daesh to be.

In that respect, they DO want to kill infidels/apostates - just not the ones you're thinking of. That is, not non-Islamic people.

The Koran itself differentiates between the People(s) of the Book (to include Jews and Christians) as NOT being inherent enemies. Sure, they are not required to be treated the same as Muslims, but they are also not expected to be killed for no reason other than their religion.

I prefer to let Muslims interpret the Koran. The majority of Muslims do not hold the same beliefs as the islamofascists/radical extremists. The latter hold a bastardized view of Islam, according to those who properly determine these things.

IMHO, for "us" in the west, rather than deal with religious interpretations we should focus on threats and intelligence. Those are things that are easier, and familiar.

 

[indiucky]

Either way, for purposes of combatting terrorism, I hope we can agree that the goal should be finding the ones who believe in killing infidels and leaving alone the ones who don't.

I've been reading your posts for nigh on five years now and I now figured out who you remind me of...

And yes it's a compliment....

 

[Route 45]

1) More than half of American Christians would probably describe themselves as fundamental or practicing. Yet, I do not see Christian slavery, husbands beating wives, or stoning of adulterous people. (Well, not in the biblical definition of "stoned.")

That's because Christianity doesn't call for those things. Show me where Mohammad exhorts his followers to turn the other cheek, or to refrain from casting the first stone.

2) Erdogan, as leader of a still-democratic Islamic nation, saying that Islam is Islam rather obviously means that his view is that it is compatible with democracy. Within "regular" Islam, the islamofascists are generally considered non-Islamic.

I hope you didn't post that with a straight face. Turkey as an example of democratic ideals? Yeah, Erdogan's bodyguard sure taught us all a lesson in freedom and democracy in Washington DC the other day.

Again, the point is that it is important to treat the threats to civilization differently from the non-threats.

We simply see threats differently. What you call moderate, I call dormant.

 

[hog slayer]

Argument not in evidence. Christianity as a religion was founded on the teachings of Jesus as transcribed in the New Testament. Please cite relevant sections of New Testament verses supporting your position.

I gave out too much rep in the last 24 hours. Sorry.

I agree. Jesus never picked up a sword. His followers cannot exult in violent behavior in his name.
How does the comparison look against the life of Mohammed? Show me a video wherein a "soft" (my word) Muslim condemns the violence of ISIS. I'm sure you can eventually, but you'll pass all the others who cannot condemn the violence of jihadists

 

[printcraft]

Islam is not a threat to an Islamic society. To everyone else, beware.

Unless you are a woman or gay.