Fishers gas clerk arrested for intimidation, PD says pulled gun on theft suspect

[Trigger Time]

Glocks????

(IMHO it shouldn't matter if the gun feeds from the bottom and is plastic...)

Just kidding Glock guys....Just a grumpy old man remembering back when guns were made of steel and grips were.....Wait a minute...Did I take my blood pressure pills or wait...No...It's good...I got Matlock DVR'ed...So anyway that's what the river was like back in the 1970's...I used to trap within sight of Louisvil......"

i was having breakfast once with a retired IPD detective (that's Indianapolis police department for anyone that don't remember the good ole days) and he told me that back when he was on the beat of someone told him on a traffic stop they weren't answering his questions or got smart mouthed then he'd pull them through their window and give them a beatdown. I just said yeah that's why people don't trust the police still.
Sometimes the old days are better left in the old days. Matlock is one of them grandma used to force me to watch that and perry mason with her. I'm surprised i didn't end up as a mass murderer

 

[Cameramonkey]

Why would someone do that?

I think that ranks up there with licking the last donut during an argument over who should get it.

 

[indiucky]

Sometimes the old days are better left in the old days. Matlock is one of them grandma used to force me to watch that and perry mason with her. I'm surprised i didn't end up as a mass murderer

I never watched Matlock but Houghmade's new avatar has got me thinking I should.....I was a High Chapparal fan myself.....

Funny how much influence things have on you when you are a kid...I thought she was the most beautiful woman in the world when I was five or six.....

"Mom...I am going to marry a girl just like Victoria on High Chapparell..."

"That's Linda Cristal, she's an actress from Argentina.....Where is a Hoosier like you going to find a girl like that???"

"I'll find her....."



And I did...Over twenty years now....She's not from Argentina...But her parents are.... (She's holding a .50 caliber cane gun...)

 

[HoughMade]

I was just talking in general, when the "bad guy" turns around, and walks away,

the threat is over .....

I didn't say that. We have to distinguish between situations that involve force or threat of force and simple theft. Many in this thread are trying to make this too complicated...or just want to shoot someone, I guess.

You can use force to stop the use of unlawful force. This can be up to and including deadly force when in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury. Full stop.

A person is justified in using reasonable force against any other person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:
(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;
if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.

Ind. Code § 35-41-3-2.

You want us to say what is a "reasonable fear". The fear anyone would have? That's easy. Other than that, it may be a question answered only by a jury.

I am more than a little troubled by what I perceive to be questions about "when do I get to shoot someone?"

 

[Cameramonkey]

What if we are in fear of them stealing the last bag of jerky? Thats a scary thought.

 

[singlesix]

I will say, that in Texas, after dark, you are allowed to shoot an individual who tries to break into or steal your vehicle. As for shooting things, I have to take some discretion. What if said thief is trying to provide for their family in some form or fashion? Yes, I am well aware that there are thieves out there who just want to shop lift just for the thrill of it, but there are some who do so as a means to provide for a starving self or family. To shoot a man for stealing an apple because he has not had any food in days seems a bit over reaching to me. Is it easy to tell the difference? No, but not sure I would shoot someone just because they stole something. With that being stated, in this situations I stated, I look at a non violent criminal act where no weapon or aggression was used. My mindset is completely different when said thief is aggressive/violent.

............................................................

Update ... just checked his posts ... hit 50 and straight posting WTS and WTB ads. So I doubt he'll be back to reply to my comment so redacted.

 

[Trigger Time]

I never watched Matlock but Houghmade's new avatar has got me thinking I should.....I was a High Chapparell fan myself.....

Funny how much influence things have on you when you are a kid...I thought she was the most beautiful woman in the world when I was five or six.....

"Mom...I am going to marry a girl just like Victoria on High Chapparell..."

"That's Linda Cristal, she's an actress from Argentina.....Where is a Hoosier like you going to find a girl like that???"

"I'll find her....."



And I did...Over twenty years now....She's not from Argentina...But her parents are.... (She's holding a .50 caliber cane gun...)

so true man! I'm glad you found your soulmate!
that cane gun is awesome. I've wanted one for a while

 

[rhino]

I never watched Matlock but Houghmade's new avatar has got me thinking I should.....I was a High Chapparell fan myself.....

Funny how much influence things have on you when you are a kid...I thought she was the most beautiful woman in the world when I was five or six.....

"Mom...I am going to marry a girl just like Victoria on High Chapparell..."

"That's Linda Cristal, she's an actress from Argentina.....Where is a Hoosier like you going to find a girl like that???"

"I'll find her....."



And I did...Over twenty years now....She's not from Argentina...But her parents are.... (She's holding a .50 caliber cane gun...)

You cheeky monkey! I have to visit your shop some day soon.

"High Chaparral" was one of my favorite shows too. The lead character was portrayed by a famous viking!

 

[indiucky]

Then let him go. It's a can of Pringles and a Slim Jim.

But what if??? And I am just saying what if....It's two pounds of Merkley's hickory smoked thick sliced bacon???

 

[indiucky]

You cheeky monkey! I have to visit your shop some day soon.

"High Chaparral" was one of my favorite shows too. The lead character was portrayed by a famous viking!

Who discovered the new world no less.....

[video=youtube;Hc_S1Yr8gsg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc_S1Yr8gsg[/video]

 

[BehindBlueI's]

According to Mr. Relford's class, you can use deadly force to prevent a forcible felony (like any of us know in the moment what is, or is not). So if you walk outside your home and someone is in your vehicle and you BELIEVE them to be attempting to steal it, you can lawfully draw on them.

Theft is not a forcible felony. If Mr. Relford's class includes followup questions, I recommend you contact him again and gain a better understanding of felony vs forcible felony.

So . . .

Let's say you see someone stealing your car. You are close enough to climb into the passenger seat while they are still in the process of thievery. Now that you're in the car, does it become a carjacking if they continue to steal the car?

No. For the simple reason that carjacking no longer exists in Indiana.

For some of us, going "hands on" is no longer an option due to age or some permanent infirmities.

Then some of us probably shouldn't be confronting shoplifters.

You think loss to theft is expensive? Wait to you see the bills for a wrongful shoot.

What does a "citizens arrest" allow? It seems like attempting to hold a perp until officers arrive should be allowed. Is it because it happened outside?

In this case, a two hour detention (shopkeeper's rights) and reasonable force. I've already addressed that above. Inside or outside is irrelevant. If you aren't an agent of the property, an arrest for a misdemeanor must involve some ongoing disturbance of the peace.

Sec. 4[FONT=&quot]. (a) Any person may arrest any other person if:[/FONT][FONT=&quot](1) the other person committed a felony in his presence;
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](2) a felony has been committed and he has probable cause to believe that the other person has committed that felony;  or
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot](3) a misdemeanor involving a breach of peace is being committed in his presence and the arrest is necessary to prevent the continuance of the breach of peace.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]- See more at: Indiana Code Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure § 35-33-1-4 | FindLaw[/FONT]

The days of shooting fleeing thieves is long gone. TN vs Garner put the nail in that coffin, so that's the reality you have to deal with.

 

[rhino]

No. For the simple reason that carjacking no longer exists in Indiana.

Ah-HAH! I did not know that.

Okay . . . so . . . same scenario. Once "you" climb into the car, does theft then become robbery?

 

[hopper68]

Why would someone do that?

Some Nonamed Subject would so they could brag about it on INGO. (If they are not already banned)

 

[singlestacksig]

Ah-HAH! I did not know that.

Okay . . . so . . . same scenario. Once "you" climb into the car, does theft then become robbery?

OR... given current events.. could one say that they were acting in defense of a third party by keeping the car from being used as a weapon ??

 

[Expat]

My comments weren't really related to shoplifting as I do not now, nor have I ever, clerked in a convenience store. I was just generally complaining that apparently I would have to just stand by and watch as someone cleans out my garage, waiting for police to arrive.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

There is no way in hell I am pulling a gun on someone who has exited the store with stolen chips, cigs, sodas, booze, etc.

If you do shoot someone for doing that, you want me on your jury.

 

[patience0830]

Why would someone do that?

For a good reason to darwinize an idiot.

Why do you ask?

 

[Kutnupe14]

My comments weren't really related to shoplifting as I do not now, nor have I ever, clerked in a convenience store. I was just generally complaining that apparently I would have to just stand by and watch as someone cleans out my garage, waiting for police to arrive.

Unless your garage is "over the river and through the words," I'm betting it's considered curtilage... which, in Indiana, is treated in the same way as a dwelling or occupied motor vehicle.... and what would you do if you found a person in either?

 

[IndyDave1776]

No. For the simple reason that carjacking no longer exists in Indiana.

You just pointed out a way to end crime that at least would appeal to most bleeding hearts--simply define it out of existence!

 

[STEEL CORE]

Trigger she is very pretty and can probably beat you senseless with that bang stick.