Florida school Shooting

[actaeon277]

https://www.themaven.net/bluelivesm...rkland-massacre-luoyc9Rc-k6vUKPdBbSGKA?full=1

Someone please tell me this is fake.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

https://www.themaven.net/bluelivesm...rkland-massacre-luoyc9Rc-k6vUKPdBbSGKA?full=1

Someone please tell me this is fake.

Saw this on Jim Lucas' FB page.

 

[churchmouse]

Saw this on Jim Lucas' FB page.

I saw this. What a load of Horse ****. So I guess it is true. They could give a **** about the kids when all we here is think of the children.
I need to punch something out.

 

[Vigilant]

https://www.themaven.net/bluelivesm...rkland-massacre-luoyc9Rc-k6vUKPdBbSGKA?full=1

Someone please tell me this is fake.

404 file not found! Cliff notes please?

 

[actaeon277]

I also found it on Jim Lucas's page.
But now I don't see it.

It staged that some of the officers that went in to the school were being disciplined.

 

[churchmouse]

404 file not found! Cliff notes please?

There is a link in the SRO thread. It worked for me earlier.

 

[Vigilant]

I also found it on Jim Lucas's page.
But now I don't see it.

It staged that some of the officers that went in to the school were being disciplined.

Ahhh! Saw that in the other thread.

 

[churchmouse]

Ahhh! Saw that in the other thread.

Link is no longer viable.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

https://www.themaven.net/bluelivesm...rkland-massacre-luoyc9Rc-k6vUKPdBbSGKA?full=1

Someone please tell me this is fake.

Reading the article the issue was not with them responding, but for not notifying their department that they were responding. It could have been handled with a "Hey, next time why don't you let us know you are doing the job that BCSO deputies wouldn't" and not a suspension from SWAT.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Reading the article the issue was not with them responding, but for not notifying their department that they were responding. It could have been handled with a "Hey, next time why don't you let us know you are doing the job that BCSO deputies wouldn't" and not a suspension from SWAT.

Sure it could have, if that was the real issue. Probably a good example of their brass digging around for something to hang them on. Unless it's changed, I recall being on the street and being told to *not* tie up the radio backing on to runs like that, just show up and sort the CAD out later if you can't do it on your computer. It looks like fewer and fewer departments want anything resembling a warrior ethos. If they'd found the shooter and given him a big hug and asked about his feelings, they'd have gotten medals.

 

[actaeon277]

Sure it could have, if that was the real issue. Probably a good example of their brass digging around for something to hang them on. Unless it's changed, I recall being on the street and being told to *not* tie up the radio backing on to runs like that, just show up and sort the CAD out later if you can't do it on your computer. It looks like fewer and fewer departments want anything resembling a warrior ethos. If they'd found the shooter and given him a big hug and asked about his feelings, they'd have gotten medals.

Good possibility.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

For the LEOs, is _any_ part of the stated rationale for temporarily suspending the two officers valid? Set aside the circumstances of the incident in this case, but in "normal" operations, does this sort of wrist-slap make sense? I've read what BBI & Frank_N_Stein had to say and I believe I understand, but I'm trying to understand if there would normally be a valid reason for doing this.

 

[churchmouse]

Again.......I am in full support of the street LEO.
This chain of command cover my ass bravo sierra is just that in my eyes........Bravo Sierra.

I stand behind my earlier post as it seems more important to those up the chain to CYA over the safety of "Us and our kids" and again.....absolutely no knock on the street cops.

If these departments are this afraid of Law Suits and media backlash then this is another issue put on us by the MSM and the snowflakes they service.

 

[long coat]

Link still worked for me.

I got it from Jim's page also.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

For the LEOs, is _any_ part of the stated rationale for temporarily suspending the two officers valid? Set aside the circumstances of the incident in this case, but in "normal" operations, does this sort of wrist-slap make sense? I've read what BBI & Frank_N_Stein had to say and I believe I understand, but I'm trying to understand if there would normally be a valid reason for doing this.

Valid from a street officer or general public perspective? Probably not. Valid from a management "you embarrassed us and we are scared of your willingness to do violence" perspective? Absolutely. The pendulum is swinging at many departments.

Quotes from around the US show a pattern:

I see this same kind of attitude in law enforcement. It's highly possible to go your entire career without throwing a punch, swinging a baton or even drawing your weapon. Most agencies have unions that provide protection for their officers and you really can't get fired for doing nothing. Most of these risk averse types usually promote up the chain to make sure law enforcement will never become a contact sport for them, or the first time they get punched in the face they quit. On the other hand, if you're naturally disposed towards being a hunter of evil your chances of meeting violence rise to a near certainty. The cake eaters can't fathom why anyone would want to do that, so they look upon the hunters with dread and suspicion. The hunters wind up (complaining) about the cake eaters of internet forums.

My opinion is that in law enforcement showing initiative may get troops in trouble more than anything else..

I'm sure it's becoming like this everywhere...but for us the answer is basically 95% social worker to 5% cop training. And sadly, that's not an exaggeration. Multi day classes on CIT, Creating an Inclusive Environment, Implicit Bias, Procedural Justice, Community Engagement, etc. No firearms training at all, period. And DT for four hours every two years.

Then train for social work.
Then reward social work.
Then punish warrior ethos.

The pendulum is swinging again. Better you get killed then make the dept look bad on YouTube. Dead cops makes the public sympathetic. Cops that win make a lot of the admins wring their hands and/or clutch their pearls.

Some places have been like this for decades. I've got a good friend who's retired from a different department. When I told him I was in a shooting the first thing he told me was they would move me to an admin spot and never let me work the street/investigations again because they'd be afraid I'd get in another one. That wasn't my experience with my department, and I felt pretty supported, but it was obviously his experience.

 

[brotherbill3]

Sure it could have, if that was the real issue. Probably a good example of their brass digging around for something to hang them on. Unless it's changed, I recall being on the street and being told to *not* tie up the radio backing on to runs like that, just show up and sort the CAD out later if you can't do it on your computer. It looks like fewer and fewer departments want anything resembling a warrior ethos. If they'd found the shooter and given him a big hug and asked about his feelings, they'd have gotten medals. ... "Postumously"

FIFY - ... you forgot we're not in fairytale land.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Valid from a street officer or general public perspective? Probably not. Valid from a management "you embarrassed us and we are scared of your willingness to do violence" perspective? Absolutely. The pendulum is swinging at many departments.

Quotes from around the US show a pattern:










Some places have been like this for decades. I've got a good friend who's retired from a different department. When I told him I was in a shooting the first thing he told me was they would move me to an admin spot and never let me work the street/investigations again because they'd be afraid I'd get in another one. That wasn't my experience with my department, and I felt pretty supported, but it was obviously his experience.

Thanks for the feedback. It's kind of scary because it seems that the streets are getting MORE dangerous for cops rather than less dangerous overall. Glad you folks are the street are still wanting to do what you do, despite the fears of your "leaders."

 

[bwframe]

I am very pro law enforcement. That said, law enforcement needs to be accountable for their work, like all the rest of us. A current trend seems to be blaming nobody for failures, some massive catastrophic failures. I'd like to know how we are going to fix that?

We may well be facing the fight of our lives for the Second Amendment over failure of authorities to do their job. Not to mention some at fault authorities attempting to deflect the blame towards guns and NRA.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

For the LEOs, is _any_ part of the stated rationale for temporarily suspending the two officers valid? Set aside the circumstances of the incident in this case, but in "normal" operations, does this sort of wrist-slap make sense? I've read what BBI & Frank_N_Stein had to say and I believe I understand, but I'm trying to understand if there would normally be a valid reason for doing this.

PDs have rules that need to be followed. Being a supervisor I would have talked to them and reminded them that they needed to notify someone that they were leaving training and going to assist. If someone above me decided to punish them, I would stand up for them as best I could. A suspension from SWAT is not a "wrist slap", but quite a bit more serious.

 

[jedi]

I also found it on Jim Lucas's page.
But now I don't see it.

It staged that some of the officers that went in to the school were being disciplined.

Im on a phone so cant bring up the link.
Two swat officers from a different dept then where the school is at have been suspended for failing to inform their superviors about going to the school/shooting.

The sherrif for the county the school is in dis not request swat. Those 2 swat officers where in the area doing training when the call came in over their radios to get ready/be on stand by. They took it upon themselves to go into action.

On a different note the 911 calls, some at least, have been released amd the sherrif cops that made the news for juat standing outside while the shooting was going on can be hear on the radio and calls.

A strong case can be made that he was not a coward.
The first call he made said possible shooting near the high school by bldg 1200 or 1300 coming from outside.

2nd call he tells the operator to have school locked down.
(From what he is hearing the shots are outside)
So he positions himself towards the school and field.
(Looks like he was protecting that point of entry)

Third call is to tell other officers to stay 500 deet from bldg
(Again it appears he wanted to cover the bldg entraces as the shooting was outside.)

Then the kids starting coming out due to fire alarm.
So it looks like in the mist of all the chaos at the start he was protecting the school entrance from potential shooter outside.