Forum concerns

[Bigum1969]

The good ol' days were fun, but with the number of pot stirrers there are now, it will never happen...I still like the site as much today as I did when I first joined though.

Well said, Benny. Things are different. Like everything else, INGO evolves. It's different, but still fun. And interesting.

And, when you have a serious question or need some help, INGO responds!

 

[Bigum1969]

Oh, and in the spirit of being one of the immature people on INGO, POWNAGE!

 

[4sarge]

One of the first things needed is a lift of the 50 post classifieds rule. It would eliminate the useless posts that new members create and clean up the board. But then, what would all the mod wannabes do without having newbs to stalk and prey and neg rep into oblivion with "Only xx more posts to 50 posts" responses. Am I not intelligent enough to pick and choose who I want to deal with in the classifieds that I need a nanny to cull the classifieds pool for me? BTW, I haven't bought or sold anything in there for months.

Status updates. Don't those threads fly in the face of the 50 post rule? Is what happens in those threads the spirit of what this board is supposed to be about? "I've got eleventy billion posts in 1 thread!" I've seen the mods participate in those threads and they seem to delight in the wolves coming in and bragging on the prey they've killed in the break room or general politics.

I fear the staff is looking to the wrong people for the disrespect that is rampant in this site. There is a whole group of people here who constantly rag on the tin foiler crowd. So much so, that they can't simply ignore them, they have to all gang up on the person in every thread they post in and start new troll threads to antagonize them. They complain when the tin foilers post and they complain when they don't. They have to complain about them in other threads and other parts of the board. They have to run to the status update thread and brag about what they said to so and so to get all the kudos from the rest of the hive mind.

As I said in the bus thread. We all know the only reasonable and mature way to get your neighbor to turn down his blaring stereo is to crank yours up. If one's opinion doesn't fall in line with the hive mind, they get labeled haters, tin foilers, etc and the wolf pack springs into action to save the internets for the world.

+1

 

[Colt556]

I can't comment on your interactions with someone else, but how do you KNOW who receives an infraction from the classifieds? I very rarely read all the classified ads. If I did that, I would not have time for my own life. I normally act on ads that have been reported, but I definitely do not go on the hunt to impose infractions.

Also, usually members only report early bumps and discussions in the classifieds, which is a great help in allowing other ads to go to the top of the list to be seen.

I don't read them all either. But I've noticed in some of the ones I've been interested in that comments are posted and remain for the duration of the ad. I don't KNOW if the person was dinged or not but I KNOW the comments remained and mine was deleted. And before you ask no I don't have a link, I've just noticed it several times. I try to obey the rules and not stir up trouble but I do feel as if the 2 times I was penalized were unwarranted and that I see others do similar actions, or worse daily. In the big picture it may seem petty to the Mods but it bothers me.

 

[hornadylnl]

..and he poured out his wrath upon the wicked gun haters of the nation .. and it was good ...

Leprosy, Plague and Other Visitors to New York

Looks like we condone God smiting those who not agree with our lifestyle.

Que I hate to use this reference but I must..

Would it also be ok then if it said???

....and he poured out his wrath upon the wicked African-Americans of the nation ..and it was good...

And what exactly does the dogpile of the wolf pack who disagree with him accomplish by running up the post count in the thread and keeping it up to the top? So you can be seen as one of the enlightened ones that doesn't agree with him? If an outsider comes in and sees that post and sees that it has an audience of zero, I think they can figure out on their own that there isn't a lot of like minded posters of that view point. Again, do I need a nanny to tell me what others think and believe?

 

[Que]

..and he poured out his wrath upon the wicked gun haters of the nation .. and it was good ...

Leprosy, Plague and Other Visitors to New York

Looks like we condone God smiting those who not agree with our lifestyle.

Que I hate to use this reference but I must..

Would it also be ok then if it said???

....and he poured out his wrath upon the wicked African-Americans of the nation ..and it was good...

I'm sorry, but I just can see how your analogy will get us to the place of consensus and make INGO an enjoyable place for everyone. Personally, as I describe myself, African-American (Black) would probably be last on the list, behind, Christian, man, husband, father, son, American, Hoosier, veteran, and several others; so I can care less what plagues are pronounced on a people/person, because I'm aware of how to live in a way that nullifies anything detrimental to my blessed existence. So, to answer your question, yes, I think the thread is acceptable. If you don't, I think this is part of the reason this thread was started.

Again, what is your specific complaint about this thread and tell us if you have you found the mods to operate in a disapproving manner concerning this type of thread?

 

[hornadylnl]

And this will be this site once the wolf pack runs out everyone they disagree with.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMxH7JLVdhc]YouTube - Yep...[/ame]

 

[sparky241]

I believe that is a fair request. Bear in mind that while this would solve one issue it may create another in that some folks will disagree with the reasoning behind the closure.

people disagreeing is already a problem, i wont be one that was created its laready been here for some time, but this would 1 show people that braking rules wont be tolerated 2 that you guys arent being biased. i think it people knew why our threads wer being closed it would stop some threads from ever being opened.

 

[christman]

Hornady has a point. I would like to mention that a very close friend of mine stop visiting INGO after only about 9 posts. He claimed that everyone in the few posts he read were people ganging up on others and he called the forum "childish."

He hasn't been back, but instead visited other gun forums and seems to be quiet happy. The point I am making is that new people coming in here seeing the arguing and neg repping to oblivion get bad first impressions and sometimes do not come back.

 

[Andre46996]

And what exactly does the dogpile of the wolf pack who disagree with him accomplish by running up the post count in the thread and keeping it up to the top? So you can be seen as one of the enlightened ones that doesn't agree with him? If an outsider comes in and sees that post and sees that it has an audience of zero, I think they can figure out on their own that there isn't a lot of like minded posters of that view point. Again, do I need a nanny to tell me what others think and believe?

Do you see my name in the post on that thread?
I didn't think so.

#1 He who is HE?? I believe he is implying GOD. So rule violation #1

Plus he is violating VUPD Rule #1 in the rest of the thread.

He is clearly only posting to stir the pot.

 

[esrice]

Guys/Gals-- I have to be offline for a while, so I won't be able to respond to many of the newest inquiries.

I'll get back on later and address any concerns that I can.

Please try and keep the discussion civil, as it has been mostly.

 

[Bigum1969]

Since the Status Update thread had to be dragged into this... I agree, there isn't always a lot of gun talk in there. And, it can be a somewhat childish exchange between friends.

So, that isn't in the spirit of INGO?

How many shoots and gatherings have been organized just through the Status Update (or PW) thread? At least 4, not counting the smaller gatherings. And guess what, we all went shooting.

One of the most prolific posters in the Status Update Thread, is the same guy that drives for 8 hours to offer FREE training to anyone who wants it. He drives his own supplies, targets, stuff... and even brings guns for others to use. All on his own dime... and a long way from home. One of the finest men I've ever met.

Yet, he posts in the Status Update thread most of the time. I would argue that what he brings to the Board and its members is exactly what the spirit of INGO is all about.

Just me two cents.

 

[Andre46996]

I'm sorry, but I just can see how your analogy will get us to the place of consensus and make INGO an enjoyable place for everyone. Personally, as I describe myself, African-American (Black) would probably be last on the list, behind, Christian, man, husband, father, son, American, Hoosier, veteran, and several others; so I can care less what plagues are pronounced on a people/person, because I'm aware of how to live in a way that nullifies anything detrimental to my blessed existence. So, to answer your question, yes, I think the thread is acceptable. If you don't, I think this is part of the reason this thread was started.

Again, what is your specific complaint about this thread and tell us if you have you found the mods to operate in a disapproving manner concerning this type of thread?

So as all those you don't see a problem with a thread about the wrath of GOD being brought down upon a class of people simply because they don't agree with us??

I really am sorry if you can't see how this is a nrgative thread and bring INGO down with it.


Looks like I am not the only one who sees it either..

Good?

They live in a city where gun laws are abundant and it's "good" that disease is spreading?

People like you do not make me feel proud to be a gun owner.

Actually, it's people like you I have to explain to the "outside" world that you are not what gun owners are all about.

 

[Que]

I don't read them all either. But I've noticed in some of the ones I've been interested in that comments are posted and remain for the duration of the ad. I don't KNOW if the person was dinged or not but I KNOW the comments remained and mine was deleted. And before you ask no I don't have a link, I've just noticed it several times. I try to obey the rules and not stir up trouble but I do feel as if the 2 times I was penalized were unwarranted and that I see others do similar actions, or worse daily. In the big picture it may seem petty to the Mods but it bothers me.

I agree with you, there needs to be some improvement in the classifieds, especially when people post ads with "I'll post pics later," but never do. We made it a practice to just delete the threads because there were so many. Although the rules are pretty specific on this, I would delete the thread and try to PM the OP, but it became too much.

I do not always remove the post when questions are asked, because I try to help the sale instead of standing in the way. Doing so, will only leave room for someone else to ask the same question. Besides there still are some people who don't know that a Glock 23 is a .40 caliber, so these are usually the kinds of questions. Still, we can do better and will try.

 

[Que]

So as all those you don't see a problem with a thread about the wrath of GOD being brought down upon a class of people simply because they don't agree with us??

I really am sorry if you can't see how this is a nrgative thread and bring INGO down with it.

The thread can be pot-stirring, but as a mod, I read it and found it to be within the rules. As a member, I don't care to respond in the thread to either agree or disagree.

 

[Colt556]

I agree with you, there needs to be some improvement in the classifieds, especially when people post ads with "I'll post pics later," but never do. We made it a practice to just delete the threads because there were so many. Although the rules are pretty specific on this, I would delete the thread and try to PM the OP, but it became too much.

I do not always remove the post when questions are asked, because I try to help the sale instead of standing in the way. Doing so, will only leave room for someone else to ask the same question. Besides there still are some people who don't know that a Glock 23 is a .40 caliber, so these are usually the kinds of questions. Still, we can do better and will try.

Thanks for the positive reply. I hope that things get better in general for the site b/c I have made some friends and have learned a lot since I've joined. I will follow this thread and see what happens.

 

[SavageEagle]

I will try to address some of these points.

1) Because it's against the rules. The rules of this house clearly state that name-calling and insulting others is not allowed. This is an absolute. Folks who post here are expected, even in heated discussions, to not insult or name-call others.

2) You don't even have one fact from this, nor do you even know what it stemmed from. Why make pointed accusations based on zero knowledge?

3) No I didn't brag about banning someone. I illustrated a point that my moderation is fair and unbiased.

4) That's not the way to solve problems.

5) It's nice to see someone realize their mistakes and vow not to repeat them.

6) One person's idea of a trouble maker is not always the same as the next. There are members of this site who would label someone as such simply because they don't agree with their opinions.

7) It's not a matter of laziness. It's a matter of supporting the spirit of this site. This site is for gun owners of all walks of life. Allowing dialogue that makes otherwise commonly interested folks feel alienated is not supporting the spirit of what INGO is all about. I'm sorry that it led to a prohibition against certain topics, but it did.

8) I would like to know who you perceive to be the "in crowd" and also to see some examples of their behavior that you think should have been handled differently.

You could have made it a LITTLE easier to reply.

1) Then you should technically be banning and infracting people who are merely joking around, but still calling each other names. Equal enforcement of the rules and all. However, that wouldn't be fun and create more work for you and wouldn't be right. I'm not saying allow pissing matches, but bans for calling someone ******* who's actually being one? That's a bit ridiculous. It's like being in school and the teacher telling my kids if someone punches them in the face to run and tell the teacher instead of handling it themselves.

It seems the mod staff doesn't think as adults we can handle ourselves. Which brings us to the point of the staff considering us children who need our hands held or smacked, depending on the situation. Those who moderate with this attitude are not fit to be mods.

2) I don't need any facts about the case. It's a reoccurring case and what I said is 99% of the time how it's handled. I was merely making a point in general and you failed to recognize that.

3) You did brag about it. You came right out as said "Looky what I did! See?!?!" I'm not sure what your definition of bragging is, but that post fit the definition to a T. Therefore, my point with what I said stands.

4) I never said it was a way to solve problems. You and Evan were talking about how infractions are merely ways to show behavior of members that the mod staff can look at and make judgments with. I was pointing out how unneeded that is because of the threads that pop up in your private forum.

Just because someone has infractions doesn't mean the real story is being told and therefore decisions are being made on false assumptions in that way. Infractions could be wrongly given over trivial things or there could be a lack of infractions and the member be a severe nuisance to the membership and forum as a whole.

5) That's a farce and you know it. How many people do that and turn right around and repeat the behavior? So like I said... It's about satisfaction, not real results.

6) This I agree with. However, I think you missed the point here. One or two members complain a few times, obviously this isn't a troublemaker. But when you have constant complaints from a large number of members and mods alike, you have yourself a trouble maker.

Definitions of a trouble maker are the same as the definitions of "family friendly". There's always a comfortable medium for the majority of members and staff to agree upon.

7) Wrong. It's not about the "spirit of the forum". It boiled down to whiny, butt hurt members who didn't know how to ignore certain subjects and threads.

If I was wrong about why this forum was set up around then I will gladly apologize and be on my way. There are much friendly places who actually let their members discuss current events freely and not worry about whiny members who want nothing more than to complain to mommy about things they don't agree with.

And if it's not pure laziness, then why can't issues between mods and members that happen in threads be discussed in those threads instead of banning complete subjects?

8) I'm not about to scour this forum for multiple examples of preferential treatment of some members over others. If you can't see it, and haven't seen it, then you're probably the one doing it. But if you want examples of the "in-crowd" you obviously didn't read my post very well. Maybe you should reread it.


Apparently you didn't see my suggestions or just don't care about them. My post had complaints, but also ways to solve them. They are how I would handle them if I were the mod instead of you. And no, I have NO interest in your job. Trust me.

 

[hornadylnl]

I don't understand the obsession with the classified rules either. Does not posting a price or pictures only hurt the seller and his ability to sell? Instead, we have people who aren't even interested in said item but they feel it's their mod wannabe duty to police the world. If a seller can't be bothered to improve his chances at a sale, then let it be on him. This is just another shining example of the rampant nannyism on this board.

 

[E5RANGER375]

This is correct, I issued no infraction. Why? Because a big part of this job is using our discretion in cases where a hard-and-fast rule isn't broken. Because I am familiar with JetGirl's typical posting style, and because she didn't directly insult the member by calling him a name, I chose to remove and close, rather than infract.

^^ this is good moderation

 

[tyler34]

whiny, butt hurt members who didn't know how to ignore certain subjects and threads.

pot to kettle, pot to kettle come in kettle.