Future of hunting & shooting in Indiana is evolving in the wrong direction?

[openwell]

Hunting with a handgun is easy.
Bayou Bill used to write for the Indy Star before their liberal ways took a dim view on Outdoors in indiana.
He did get folks interested in handguning for deer back when first started in 1986 I believe. That's when you had 3 business day wait on handgun purchases.
Required a LTCH even if you wanted to just hunt back then too.
License had to be on a "shotgun" tag because no time to print handgun tags.
Was done by DNR proclamation, not a legislator in sight.

No scopes needed for accurate deer hunting out to 100 yards or so with Ruger Redhawk in .41 Rem. mag or .44 Rem mag & 7 1/2 barrel.
Got my first buck in Hamilton county at the base of my treestand first week of the season. Not sure to call it "0" yards, but close.
Shot to the neck, just had to point. .41 Rem. mag handload with H110 & 210 gr. Nosler hp.
Have taken many deer since with handguns since. All revolvers, all from a treestand.
Now, all my revolvers have scopes. But just makes carrying them a little heavier. Can still kill deer without scopes.

And yes, it is about the difference between public and private being horse apples! Same equipment, same fees.

As a bowhunter I also use a longbow, but I have a nice cam bow too.

Good deer hunters can take deer on public land and will continue to do so. You just like some rationale for why there is a difference regardless of the weapon.

Sad direction the IDNR goes and nobody is stepping up to say so.

 

[Bosshoss]

Handgunning for deer is the hardest thing I ever did hunting wise.
I have killed 15+ deer with a handgun and found it a lot more difficult than archery. IMO(exception would be Archery from the ground using primitive gear and instinctive shooting).
Most of the hunters I know that have harvested deer with a handgun it was by chance and they had a shotgun or muzzleloader with them and the handgun "just in case a easy shot presents itself". I know very,very few hunters that went into the woods equipped with only a handgun.
I also know several that shot one with a handgun so that they could say they did and haven't hunted with one since.

 

[phylodog]

I can't fathom how hunting with a handgun could be more challenging than hunting with a bow. I've easily had 100 deer within chip shot handgun range in the past five years and I don't claim to be a super hunter. I am mindful of the wind, my movement, sound and scent and they come right by all the time.

 

[openwell]

Deer hunting is a skill and skillful hunters with experience make it look easy.
Takes preparation regardless of the weapon.
Started handgun hunting for deer when it first started cause I didn't like getting kicked out from under my hat by 3" 12ga. slugs.
Never really could grow to love deer hunting with shotgun slugs.
Have been shooting a bow because my dad did not believe in owning guns, but he did not object to me using a ben pearson cougar recurve.
Shot squirrels & rabbits and county fair balloons. Shot hay bale targets and made plenty of arrows from cedar then fiberglass then aluminum.
The IDNR has consistently taken a long time to make any improvements in deer hunting for me.
I just so happened to hunt deer with a rifle out-of-state beginning in 1987. Rifles calibers larger than .22 centerfire and that's what kept me hunting out-of-state since.
Costs for licenses out-of-state are and have been a better value than ANYTHING IDNR has ever offered.
You don't see other states pissing around with deer rifle caliber crap like Indiana. No other state has such STUPID reg.s
My concern is the direction is off and probably never will be corrected. Indiana is such a minor league state for outdoorsman. Just travel out-of-state and see.
Pathetic that nobody wants to bring this up when you see how IDNR & politicians are wasting large amounts of money and privatizing ranges and F&WA so hunters get gouged twice.
My time left to enjoy the "slow track" regulations here are expiring. Great that I can still travel to some great places that know how to welcome hunters.

 

[Hookeye]

My comment on handgunning deer was regarding specialty pistols.
Not wheelguns.
Rifle cartridge handguns with scopes of higher mag for longer range work.
This was in ref to rifles vs said pistols.........on public land.
Rifles are way easier to employ.

As for bows and handguns.........some folks can shoot their bows better than their handguns.
More stable.
Plus less chance of developing a flinch..........but then target panic can really screw up an archer LOL.

Bowhunting is tougher IMHO........due to time of flight and trajectory.

 

[Hookeye]

So maybe Indiana should copy some of the "better" states and mandate straight wall cases for PCR :-P

 

[Hookeye]

Most of my deer killed by 2 3/4" slugs...........only time I needed 3" was when I had a POS Mossberg 835 (3.5" chamber).
Never understood folks blasting 3" in rigs that would run 2 3/4".
Proly have their wives beat them with whips for fun after coming home from the range.

 

[Bosshoss]

I can't fathom how hunting with a handgun could be more challenging than hunting with a bow. I've easily had 100 deer within chip shot handgun range in the past five years and I don't claim to be a super hunter. I am mindful of the wind, my movement, sound and scent and they come right by all the time.

Getting them in range is no more difficult than Archery. I shoot a handgun in competition and consider myself a good shot but when shooting at a deer a handgun is very unforgiving. It is easy to shoot off a bench and shoot good groups but I found doing the same out of a tree stand was much more difficult. I finally went to a ground blind and shooting sticks, which added another level of difficulty(not with the shooting but actually seeing the deer).
The challenges for me with Archery were drawing the bow without getting seen and waiting on a clear shooting path. The challenges for handgun were getting the gun supported and breaking the trigger clean in awkward shooting positions as finding a rest in the right position never seemed to happen.
When I was bowhunting I practiced hard and could shoot 5 inch groups at 50 yards standing up. I can do that with a handgun at maybe 25 yards unsupported.(which is why I use shooting sticks)
Like I said it was a challenge for ME and I enjoyed it just like some enjoy the added challenge of bowhunting. I have killed quite a few deer with a handgun have to admit when I first started(the first season it was allowed in Indiana) I thought it was going to be easy and couldn't figure out why I wasn't hitting where I was shooting, out of my treestand. All the shots were lethal and quick kills but not where I was aiming. I practiced one summer out of the treestand and figured out the rail in the treestand wasn't working for a rest so I went to the ground and shooting sticks.
Most of the challenges you mentioned, scent and wind and movement, between Archery and Handgun hunting are the same.
This is just my opinion but there are no chip shots in Archery or Handgun hunting.
Just curious have you shot a deer with a handgun? If not try it and you might like the challenge.

 

[Hookeye]

Handgun hunting is fun.
Kinda splits the diff between bow and long gun.
But anymore, with lesser hunting ground..........I just play the rifle/bow deal.

Lots of crap in the woods........so for most, no matter what one is shooting........it's typically a 50 yard max range type of deal (of course an old mature woods might offer shots double to triple that distance).

Rain last yrs opener. On return to the woods I jumped a small 8 pt. He went 60 yards and stopped.
Had a rifle.

Not big enough.

I'd have lit him up if I'd been toting a 10mm 1911.
All my handgun deer (less than a dozen).......have been w revolver.

And no big deer either

 

[Hookeye]

Love me a Smith 629. But dunno if arthritis has me dropping down to wuss .357 permanently
Still looking for a deal on a Ruger SRH 9.5"
Pops had one, took an 8 point with it.......tank...........comfy.
But last handgun deer was w .357 few yrs back.
Missed first shot........dunno WTH happened. Twig, jerk........dunno.
Still p*sses me off to this day.
He gave me a chance to redeem myself so I smoked him. Only shot was facing away neck. 51 yds
Dunno if bullet blew vert or slid between. Hornady stopped in his nose.

Grew up shooting handguns. Iron sighted .44 mag was a 100 yard an in deal.
Now older, less shooting........eyeballs not as good.
Think any iron sighted rig I use to be 50 yarder and in.

Almost all shots offhand.........two handed.

Handgun hunting..................today there's cheap electronic ear protection.
Hunting.............wear it.
Tinnitus sucks.

 

[Hookeye]

I think bows easier to shoot well than handguns to 50 yards.
Longer sight radius, the system supported out front and closer in...........easier to follow through with.
Most everybody shoots release.
Fingers days are gone.

 

[Hookeye]

Indiana allows handguns for deer on public and private land.
They allow PCR on both (no straight wall case mandate).
And currently they allow HP rifle on private.

Not perfect, but much to like IMHO.

 

[phylodog]

Just curious have you shot a deer with a handgun? If not try it and you might like the challenge.

I see where you're coming from. I haven't hunted with a handgun, doubt I will. I'm pretty well hooked on archery, I'm around 10,000x more confident with firearms than I am a bow so the challenge for me will always be with a bow.

 

[openwell]

Indiana allows handguns for deer on public and private land.
They allow PCR on both (no straight wall case mandate).
And currently they allow HP rifle on private.

Not perfect, but much to like IMHO.

Stinks. yea stinks.
Handgun regulations are the same as they were in YEAR one! With the exception of adding 10mm & 40s&w 2 yrs ago. what a joke.
I have two 10mm handguns and neither is accurate enough to trust on deer past 35 yds. Yes, that's bow range and I can do much better with my revolvers.
I have a 40 s&w handgun and the cartridge is NOT powerful enough for deer. Only allowed because of the "fiasco" with the 5 deer cartridge rifle and 10mm language that got screwed up.
40 s&w is truly a joke for deer, they deserve much more humane cartridge.

Indiana is the only state in the nation to have defined the rifles with pistol cartridges. Sound like them states defining assault rifles as "rifles we want to ban" doesn't it.
And you don't pay any more to use a 30/06 on the family farm do ya?
I do agree not perfect, just crap.
Plus I added up the cost to hunt with various types of deer equipment in the great state of indiana. $144 if you roll out of bed and want to hunt with the different weapons legal for deer.

and that's just to take ONE deer! You can't get any more backward than that. Just look around and you can hunt out-of-state for less.

 

[openwell]

I think bows easier to shoot well than handguns to 50 yards.
Longer sight radius, the system supported out front and closer in...........easier to follow through with.
Most everybody shoots release.
Fingers days are gone.

fingers are gone? They just had Traditional National Archery shoot first week of June in Cloverdale. 30 years and running.
a lot of folks that shoot instinctive traditional bows and are exceptional hunters with fingers.
I use a leather tab & a DEEP grip with a longbow or recurve, no sights required. my shots are instinctive and dead on to 30 yards and I don't need more.
Cam bow I use a release but I'm still using my fingers..............

BTW, the .357 mag. is very marginal deer cartridge for handgun hunting deer. 158gr. bullets are just too light and require very precise hits in heart & lungs.
I use nothing less than 210gr. in .41 Rem. Mag. or 240gr. in .44 Rem Mag. Even though my deer handgun harvests have been at bow range distances I still respect deer enough to want a quick kill.

 

[d.kaufman]

Stinks. yea stinks.
Handgun regulations are the same as they were in YEAR one! With the exception of adding 10mm & 40s&w 2 yrs ago. what a joke.
I have two 10mm handguns and neither is accurate enough to trust on deer past 35 yds. Yes, that's bow range and I can do much better with my revolvers.
I have a 40 s&w handgun and the cartridge is NOT powerful enough for deer. Only allowed because of the "fiasco" with the 5 deer cartridge rifle and 10mm language that got screwed up.
40 s&w is truly a joke for deer, they deserve much more humane cartridge.

Indiana is the only state in the nation to have defined the rifles with pistol cartridges. Sound like them states defining assault rifles as "rifles we want to ban" doesn't it.
And you don't pay any more to use a 30/06 on the family farm do ya?
I do agree not perfect, just crap.
Plus I added up the cost to hunt with various types of deer equipment in the great state of indiana. $144 if you roll out of bed and want to hunt with the different weapons legal for deer.

and that's just to take ONE deer! You can't get any more backward than that. Just look around and you can hunt out-of-state for less.

Where do you come up with $144? I buy the bundle for $65. I can hunt all seasons, archery, muzzleloader, and shotgun/ rifle seasons. That allows 2 antlerless and 1 antlered. Then i can pay an additional $24 for bonus/deer reduction season. Between those two licenses i can take a total of 4 deer and hunt from Sept 15 thru Jan 31

 

[openwell]

Ever wonder the origin of the handgun deer cartridges and deer rifles using handgun cartridges came from?
In 1986 IDNR administratively allowed handgun hunting on a shotgun license tag.
Only year you could hunt with handgun or shotgun for the same price.
The IDNR employee charged with the task of telling hunters they must use a minimum of .357 Mag and not allow the 38 special which is actually a .357 dia. was to measure a .357 Mag. case.
guess what 1.16" write it down quick. and note that it's precision is the the 100ths place.

Now, to the 1.8" max. length I have no idea the origin of that. but notice the precision is only to the 10ths place.

Pretty smart math for the Lad that wrote both these limiters for the regulations ;however, any handloader can load a .357 mag. down to .38 spl and do to practice with less recoil.
I must admit a .357 mag. revolver has a nasty bite and recoil. so that 1.16" stuff is a bit of fiction for the guy that buys factory ammo to swallow.

The 1.8" thing is also a fiction. I have taken my 45/70 and trimmed the cases to 1.8" loaded up a 400 gr cast bullet and sent that cartridge off to John Lee at Lee Precision to make me a factory crimp die for $15 and can shoot deer very handily. BTW, John Lee and I spoke about the fact that I was cutting the cases to 1.8" and they could be 1.75" or 1.849" and they will still perform like a standard 45/70. Again just a joke of trying too hard to spell out which cartridges are allowed. I must admit I never hunted with that 45/70 because the damn gun gives off about 35 foot-pounds of recoil with a 400gr cast bullet! a little more than my .300 Weatherby Mag.

Moral to all this, the poor Lad tried hard to get the math correct to which he could have just said you can't hunt with a .38 spl. and again have no clue why the 1.8" crap.

Again, just the direction or mis-direction of the future of Indiana hunting & shooting.

 

[openwell]

Where do you come up with $144? I buy the bundle for $65. I can hunt all seasons, archery, muzzleloader, and shotgun/ rifle seasons. That allows 2 antlerless and 1 antlered. Then i can pay an additional $24 for bonus/deer reduction season. Between those two licenses i can take a total of 4 deer and hunt from Sept 15 thru Jan 31

well lets start shall we.
archery deer to hunt when it nice weather $24, oh I also like to use my crossbow some days $24 but need the extra funds for the governor.....
want to hunt the gun season, let's see $24 for handgun, oh yea I want to use my shotgun too $24, oh no I like to hunt on public lands with my special handgun cartridge rifle $24 more.
oops, I got busy at work and now I need a muzzleloader license yea $24 more
look dear it costs me a boat load of money because I like to choose what weapon I want to hunt deer with, isn't that a rediculous and insane amount of money!

 

[d.kaufman]

well lets start shall we.
archery deer to hunt when it nice weather $24, oh I also like to use my crossbow some days $24 but need the extra funds for the governor.....
want to hunt the gun season, let's see $24 for handgun, oh yea I want to use my shotgun too $24, oh no I like to hunt on public lands with my special handgun cartridge rifle $24 more.
oops, I got busy at work and now I need a muzzleloader license yea $24 more
look dear it costs me a boat load of money because I like to choose what weapon I want to hunt deer with, isn't that a rediculous and insane amount of money!

Buy the bundle like i stated. While i dont disagree that the rules and such are pretty ridiculous, i dont mind paying what amounts to $89 for the year to be able to hunt all seasons, including reduction zone, from Sept 15 thru the end of January, allowing me 4 deer if I can take that many, with whatever tool i choose in that specified season. While money with every gov entity is wasted, without fees there would probably be zero public land to hunt by now.
The stupid caliber laws and variations from private to public land stinks also.
And why are you paying $24 for archery and $24 for crossbow? They are both archery and combined into 1 season. Rifle/shotgun/pistol are also one season, so not sure where you're coming uo with your figures if paying $24 for each tool you decide to use. If you hunt all seasons buy the bundle to start with and save a bunch

 

[openwell]

My point is a resident hunter in West Virginia, say buys a sportsman's license.$25 and can hunt & fish for the calendar year for all game with the exception of black bear.
As and Indiana resident I get sick paying $24 for an archery tag or various equipment tags that are required by law.
I usually don't hunt Indiana other than archery because of that fact. I pay the $130+ non-resident fees, camp and hunt turkey & deer in West Virginia.
Don't really need $65 bundle tag because I am done after one successful deer. I don't need 3 deer even if I could donate the venison to the needy.
Indiana residents are not receiving value. Yes, I know the bundle is a good buy. A best buy is the youth license.
But the future is bleak with the numbers of hunters declining.
And national forest lands and other public lands are not really in decline. The forest is aging and management is critical to produce good hunting grounds.
I don't expect ever to get anything in Indiana like a sportsman's license but it sure would go a long way to increasing new hunter interest.