Getting Pulled over w/ Gun in car

[Timjoebillybob]

"Am I free to go?" clarifies that you are, in fact, still being detained, even if not actually under arrest. This prevents the officer from later saying in court that he was not detaining you, you were "just talking" with each other. There may be other minutiae involved as well of which I'm not aware.

Bill what are the legal differences between what you say or what the LEO finds out while being detained or "just talking"? I think they are not required to Mirandaize you until you are officially arrested. Or is it just a difference for court under a illegal detention motion?

 

[Denny347]

Bill what are the legal differences between what you say or what the LEO finds out while being detained or "just talking"? I think they are not required to Mirandaize you until you are officially arrested. Or is it just a difference for court under a illegal detention motion?

A traffic stop alone is not a detention for the purposes of Miranda.

 

[Boilers]

And just as you might think I would be creating a "potentially difficult scenario" I might think someone else is creating one by telling a LEO "I'd prefer not discussing my personal business." There is no right or wrong; these are opinions (on everyone's part). It's right if you get the right LEO, it's wrong if you get the wrong LEO. Aside from that, our debate about it is almost useless.

I have had a couple of stops by really poor customer service cops. I have let some have it about four different times, too. I am a nice guy, but I speak my mind. They are my equal, not better no worse. I approach them like a brother, not a king.

One night I was on a double date in Muncie heading back to New Castle. (Madison ave?) I was talking, traffic was slow, happen to look up and see a yellow too late. MY BAD. Ran a red. Cop was there on me within 20 feet. I got out (it was not until I started reading Glocktalk that I even HEARD to stay in the car. I thought getting out was polite to let him stay in his car) got in the passenger seat of the car, and said
Sorry about that... and before I could finish the sentence he said NO you are not. Boy, I let him have it good. Long story short, he gave me a warning after I gave him his. My friend, an active full time sheriff's deputy in my car at the time said he was surprised at my approach, let's say.

Even when pulled over by the SWAT commander and three other police cars coming the wrong way down 465 and I 69, it only resulted in an improper lane change ticket and they did not show up for it even.

I have a lot of stories, but they all turn out fine. And I always have gotten out of the car to head back. But, I have not been pulled over for a few years now. Except down in Bowling Green last year when I unknowingly went straight in a turn lane. It was oddly marked and there was a cop right behind me. He, too, was Mr. Cranky. Not my problem. And I was carrying, then, too. Oh well. I never get nervous about that kind of stuff. After so many times, I do not get bent out of shape. Growing up with my cousin as Chief of Police, and as a real standup guy that was not a jerk, and who wore MY hand-me-downs , I cannot appreciate any officer that is not polite, and honest and HELPFUL during traffic stops. I will never regret speaking my mind, and sharing my thoughts with anyone. I will regret being walked all over by anyone. But that does not mean I am a bad citizen, a threat, or even unkind. They are big boys and should be able to take some plain talk and feedback when they are out of line. No surprises there.

 

[public servant]

I have had a couple of stops by really poor customer service cops. I have let some have it about four different times, too. I am a nice guy, but I speak my mind. They are my equal, not better no worse. I approach them like a brother, not a king.

One night I was on a double date in Muncie heading back to New Castle. (Madison ave?) I was talking, traffic was slow, happen to look up and see a yellow too late. MY BAD. Ran a red. Cop was there on me within 20 feet. I got out (it was not until I started reading Glocktalk that I even HEARD to stay in the car. I thought getting out was polite to let him stay in his car) got in the passenger seat of the car, and said
Sorry about that... and before I could finish the sentence he said NO you are not. Boy, I let him have it good. Long story short, he gave me a warning after I gave him his. My friend, an active full time sheriff's deputy in my car at the time said he was surprised at my approach, let's say.

Even when pulled over by the SWAT commander and three other police cars coming the wrong way down 465 and I 69, it only resulted in an improper lane change ticket and they did not show up for it even.

I have a lot of stories, but they all turn out fine. And I always have gotten out of the car to head back. But, I have not been pulled over for a few years now. Except down in Bowling Green last year when I unknowingly went straight in a turn lane. It was oddly marked and there was a cop right behind me. He, too, was Mr. Cranky. Not my problem. And I was carrying, then, too. Oh well. I never get nervous about that kind of stuff. After so many times, I do not get bent out of shape. Growing up with my cousin as Chief of Police, and as a real standup guy that was not a jerk, and who wore MY hand-me-downs , I cannot appreciate any officer that is not polite, and honest and HELPFUL during traffic stops. I will never regret speaking my mind, and sharing my thoughts with anyone. I will regret being walked all over by anyone. But that does not mean I am a bad citizen, a threat, or even unkind. They are big boys and should be able to take some plain talk and feedback when they are out of line. No surprises there.

Generally...you'll get treated like you act. If you act an ass...you'll probably be treated as such. Act like an adult...it will generally be reciprocated.

 

[Soundslikejosh]

Generally...you'll get treated like you act. If you act an ass...you'll probably be treated as such. Act like an adult...it will generally be reciprocated.

Actually, if I understood Boiler correctly, that was his point. I don't think he was saying that he is a jerk to LEO unnecessarily, but that he will return the favor when they start out that way. While I don't know that I'd do it with a LEO, I think in general that isn't a bad way to do things.

Personally, I try to give people one extra chance- If they get rude, I respond politely but firmly and remind them that I am being polite and I'd appreciate it in return. If they again become rude then I see no reason to remain polite. Everyone has a bad day, so I am willing to give people extra chances and a kind reminder that we are both adults, lets address each other politely. If they cannot understand a suggestion like that, I will speak in a manner they do understand. No one benefits from being hot under the collar, but sometimes its the only way you can respond to folks.

 

[bigus_D]

Generally...you'll get treated like you act. If you act an ass...you'll probably be treated as such. Act like an adult...it will generally be reciprocated.

Actually, if I understood Boiler correctly, that was his point.

 

[dross]

Generally...you'll get treated like you act. If you act an ass...you'll probably be treated as such. Act like an adult...it will generally be reciprocated.

Generally. That word leaves a lot of room. I've had very few encounters with police in my life, all but one a traffic ticket, that one when a friend attempted suicide. The friend lived in a bad part of town - he and his wife are the best of people. Out of those encounters, the suicide attempt was the worst - the cop spoke to my friend's wife - he's white, she's black - like she was the scum of the earth. The worst night of her life, she's distraught, but not acting out, pleading with the officer to help, and he curses her and threatens her. He thought everyone who lived in that neighborhood was a scumbag, it was clear. How he acted would have been unimaginable in my neighborhood. He would have never had the guts. Too bad for him, the couple and many of their friends played tennis with the District Attorney, not an ADA, but THE District Attorney, whose name if I wrote it here you could Google it because the he's nationally known from a big crime event in Colorado.

The other encounters were traffic stops, maybe six or seven in my 46 years. I was raised to be polite to cops, and I am. Two of those stops, the cop was a jerk.

I don't judge all by the actions of some. But out of seven or eight encounters with police, in three of them the police met polite or reasonable behavior with rudeness and arrogance. I don't like those odds.

I've said it here before, I'll say it again. I don't dislike the police and I respect that their job is tough. They should hold themselves and each other to the highest standards. I don't take being detained even for a few minutes lightly, though I understand the necessity. The cop should take the power we give him very seriously and solemnly, and remember that many if not most of the people he deals with daily are the citizens who pay for his kids' food.

 

[public servant]

Actually, if I understood Boiler correctly, that was his point. I don't think he was saying that he is a jerk to LEO unnecessarily, but that he will return the favor when they start out that way. While I don't know that I'd do it with a LEO, I think in general that isn't a bad way to do things.

Personally, I try to give people one extra chance- If they get rude, I respond politely but firmly and remind them that I am being polite and I'd appreciate it in return. If they again become rude then I see no reason to remain polite. Everyone has a bad day, so I am willing to give people extra chances and a kind reminder that we are both adults, lets address each other politely. If they cannot understand a suggestion like that, I will speak in a manner they do understand. No one benefits from being hot under the collar, but sometimes its the only way you can respond to folks.

Oh no, I understood. I was just making a general statement. 99 times out of 100 you'll most likely never have a problem. But there will always be that one time where a LEO is in a bad mood and that spills over. It doesn't make it right...but like everyone in all walks of life people have bad days...just like the lady at the gas station, the teller at the bank or the office receptionist. Not an excuse...but it happens. I hope it doesn't happen often.

On the other hand, no LEO expects anyone that is receiving a ticket or going to jail to be in a particularly good mood about it...and catching grief for it is part of the job. They don't expect an invite to dinner at the house in return. But going off really won't help the situation. They aren't going to tear up the ticket or take off the handcuffs because you question the length of their manhood or whether or not their mother and father were actually wed at the time of his or her conception. Standing along side the road ranting and raving really isn't the place for it...and really, it does no good except perhaps make you feel better for a minute or two...but I doubt it will change the outcome of the situation. Most LEO's are just going to tell you to have a nice day as they either hand you the ticket or double lock the cuffs and go on their way.

They just enforce the laws established by politicians. Contrary to popular belief...they are not the reincarnation of Satan himself...and most don't even wear jack-boots. Most are just trying to make a living just like the next Joe.

In all sincerity, I'd urge anyone who feels they were not treated professionally or respectfully by a LEO to contact that department and make a complaint. Just be honest...if you start the encounter with swearing and bad-mouthing, don't leave those details out. If it begins with you calling him or her a f-ing idiot...it probably won't get much better...so throw on the big panties and man up. Although you may be paying part of the LEO's salary, they shouldn't have to be insulted or degraded because you got busted for breaking the law. But neither should you. Make the call if you feel you have a legitimate complaint.

 

[public servant]

Generally. That word leaves a lot of room.

Generally (usually, commonly, ordinarily). I wasn't attempting to make iron-clad guarantees. And unfortunately, an empty apology for a situation I wasn't involved in would be rather meaningless.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

A traffic stop alone is not a detention for the purposes of Miranda.

Yes I understand that. I was asking what are the legal differences between a conversation while your being detained compared to 'just talking'. The Miranda was because it doesn't apply in either case at least for traffic stops and such.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Yes I understand that. I was asking what are the legal differences between a conversation while your being detained compared to 'just talking'. The Miranda was because it doesn't apply in either case at least for traffic stops and such.

Thanks for jumping in, Denny. I can't always get online at work. I appreciate the authoritative answer. TJBB, prefacing this as always with my standard disclaimers, IANAL, IDPOOTV, IDSIAHIELN, and TINLA, my understanding is that information freely offered cannot be ruled inadmissible in the same way that an officer entering your vehicle without permission or warrant and finding an illegal Glock 18 in your closed glovebox could not enter that item into evidence. The technical term for it is "fruit of a poisonous tree"-meaning that if the "tree" is poisonous (that is, the search is not legitimate or legal), then any "fruit" it bears is similarly unusable; inadmissible in court.

That which you freely volunteer by (stupidly) blabbering at someone whose only role is to find evidence against you is therefore fair game.

Be kind. Be polite. Be civil. If you don't have to talk, though, shut your mouth unless you want Big Bubba opening up the opposite end.


Blessings,
Bill

 

[dross]

Generally (usually, commonly, ordinarily). I wasn't attempting to make iron-clad guarantees. And unfortunately, an empty apology for a situation I wasn't involved in would be rather meaningless.

I wasn't trying to pick on your words, just making the point that in my admittedly anecdotal experience I have a high percentage of unpleasant encounters when no one was being an ass but the cop.

If you're an officer who meets courtesy and respect with the same, you certainly owe no apology for those who do not.

My job as a human being is to assume the best of everyone I meet, whether in a police uniform or thug attire, until I have reason to think differently. To do otherwise is to succumb to prejudice.

 

[Boilers]

Generally...you'll get treated like you act. If you act an ass...you'll probably be treated as such. Act like an adult...it will generally be reciprocated.

Precisely my point. When officers interact with professional attitude, I respond in kind.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

my understanding is that information freely offered cannot be ruled inadmissible in the same way that an officer entering your vehicle without permission or warrant and finding an illegal Glock 18 in your closed glovebox could not enter that item into evidence. The technical term for it is "fruit of a poisonous tree"-meaning that if the "tree" is poisonous (that is, the search is not legitimate or legal), then any "fruit" it bears is similarly unusable; inadmissible in court.

Thanks that is what I kinda figured but was just checking.

 

[greyhound47]

My question is how did he know that I had a permit?
Did it come up when he ran my plates?
I don't know maybe some LEO on here could let us know
I will always inform the officer if I am carrying . I don't know if you have to it just seems like a common courtesy to me.

I have been reading through this thread and wondering if I should speak up. I guess I will. I have asked, and been told by three officers from three jurisdictions the same things. #1 An NRA sticker is a dead give away. #2 All three officers are told by radio if you have a LTCH.

With that said, I would inform. The officer appreciates it and most likely will be more leniant for setting him/her at ease.

 

[Soundslikejosh]

#2 is not true. Period.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I have been reading through this thread and wondering if I should speak up. I guess I will. I have asked, and been told by three officers from three jurisdictions the same things. #1 An NRA sticker is a dead give away. #2 All three officers are told by radio if you have a LTCH.

With that said, I would inform. The officer appreciates it and most likely will be more leniant for setting him/her at ease.

As to #1: An NRA sticker tells me that you are more than likely a law-abiding citizen and support the 2nd Amendment by being a member of an organization that fights for your rights. Sure it may be a dead giveaway that there is a gun in the vehicle, but who is going to advertise that if they are doing it illegally?

As to #2: Absolutely not true. I run close to 100 license plates a shift on my in-car computer, and there is no "hit" on the registered owner if they have a LTCH. I run several drivers licenses on my computer, again no "hit." As stated before, the only way I know if you have a LTCH is if you tell me or I use a specific program to run your information and find out.

 

[infidel]

I would probably tell him right off the bat.

Why?

Not because "oh its ok I have my license and am legal so it won't hurt anything to tell him" It's simply because I don't want to be looking down the barrel of his 9mm because he caught a glimpse of my Glock and .

Yeah, that just happened. I just responded to the o.p. 10 pages down with the last 5 pages being debates.

 

[Donnelly]

Contrary to popular belief...they are not the reincarnation of Satan himself...and most don't even wear jack-boots.

Hey now, Denny347 was just posting the other day about polishing his jack-boots.

(I kid, I kid)

 

[Timjoebillybob]

As to #2: Absolutely not true. I run close to 100 license plates a shift on my in-car computer, and there is no "hit" on the registered owner if they have a LTCH. I run several drivers licenses on my computer, again no "hit." As stated before, the only way I know if you have a LTCH is if you tell me or I use a specific program to run your information and find out.

Just curious about what percentage do you run that specific program? 5% 25% 99%? And you run 100 plates a shift? Damn, even if your working a 12 hr shift that one every 7 minutes. If its a 8 hr shift that's more than one every 5 minutes.