Global warming.

[level.eleven]

Actually, my point is that the Sun is the major driver in global warming/cooling. And MAN has no control over it.

How does the warming of the troposphere and the cooling of the stratosphere fit into your model? How does a the non-uniformity of that warming fit into your model?

 

[Blackhawk2001]

How does the warming of the troposphere and the cooling of the stratosphere fit into your model? How does a the non-uniformity of that warming fit into your model?

How do periodic Ice Ages fit into YOUR model?

 

[rhino]

Michael Crichton was, in addition to being a wonderful writer, an erudite and perceptive individual. I have much respect for his thoughts and the world was diminished by his passing in more than one way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySV_NNKbWnQ

 

[rhino]

We're not going to be able to drastically effect global climate until sometime after someone figures out how to reliably model the global weather. Being able to reliably predict rain would be a start; being able to reliably predict the path of a hurricane would be another start. For the most part, the Old Farmer's Almanac is as reliable as your local weatherman.

Some huge names in meteorology and weather forecasting models from one of the universities in Colorado finally admitted defeat last year. They are no longer confident that their models are effective tools, nor do they believe that their research will lead to effective models. I can't remember their names, but I'll try to google it when I can.

 

[Stschil]

How does the warming of the troposphere and the cooling of the stratosphere fit into your model? How does a the non-uniformity of that warming fit into your model?

Though a fiction writer, Addams had it right. The arrogance of Mankind make him believe that not only can he control his surroundings completely, but that he is the most intelligent being in the universe.

 

[Roadie]

Let me sum up my belief on the subject, as succinctly as I can:

Correlation does not always equal causation..

 

[tmkr]

How do periodic Ice Ages fit into YOUR model?

How does the warming of the troposphere and the cooling of the stratosphere fit into your model? How does a the non-uniformity of that warming fit into your model?

What if the earths heating and cooling cycles were caused by it's molten iron core changing temps or shape depending on it's position to the sun,other planets,the tilt of it's axis,you know,gravity and electromagnetism stuff.How would that fit the models?

 

[bullet293]

http://youtu.be/A_JPcBwYGmo
what about the trees for God sakes

 

[BigMatt]

Climategate goes SERIAL: now the Russians confirm that UK climate scientists manipulated data to exaggerate global warming – Telegraph Blogs

New NASA Data Blow Gaping Hole In Global Warming Alarmism - Forbes

Oops! Reducing CO2 won’t stop global warming after all, says U.N. - Orange Punch : The Orange County Register

Al Gore Explains 'Snowmageddon' | Fox News

Global Warming & Climate Change in Perspective: CO2, Scientific Consensus, and Climate Models | Capitalism Magazine

 

[Johnny C]

Quote:


Global cooling was the theory in the mid 1970's

I PERSONALLY was at Indiana University Bloomington then.

The courses I took in the School of Public and Environmental Affairs (SPEA) were teaching GLOBAL COOLING.

If I remember correctly, they were saying that the hole in the ozone layer was letting all the heat out

 

[churchmouse]

I was told that long ago the state of Indiana was under a sheet of ice nearly a mile thick. Am guessing that the farts from Mastodons were the original cause of global warming.

Funny, we were under a sheet of ice thousands of years ago, we are not today. Must be our fault!

Will someone have a word with the sun and tell it that these warming cycles that it goes through will no longer be put up with.

If you look at the land in Indiana and drive south you can see where that glacier stopped pushing things around.

I was ready to jump on the OP as well until I got through the teaser. Volcanic activity puts more crap in the air daily than the entire united states or so I am told. We have really cleaned things up on this continent. Statement my grand father made long ago when all this enviro stuff came around....What is everyone so pissed off about, they should have seen things when I was young and all we burned was coal. He thought it looked pretty good compared to then. Not a scientific statement just an observation from an old man.

 

[level.eleven]

How do periodic Ice Ages fit into YOUR model?

Glaciation? It seems as if we have drifted away from climate change. Glaciation is more complex than colder temperatures and is measured in millions of years, sometimes tens of millions. As a matter of fact, the earth is currently at the tail end of the most recent ice age. Glaciation involves many factors with the strongest links tied to tectonic activity, oceanic activity, tilt/wobble, and yes, solar output. Solar output has risen over the past century but leveled out approximately 50 years ago.

Here is an easy read to clear up confusion regarding glaciation.

NOVA | What Triggers Ice Ages?

Here is a more advanced discussion regarding solar influence. Section 6.4 may interest you. (pdf)

http://solar-center.stanford.edu/sun-on-earth/2009RG000282.pdf

Finally, just this year there was some interesting research conducted on the relationship between CO2 and the previous ice age.

Ice age study delivers blow to global-warming skeptics - CSMonitor.com

So, how does a warming troposphere and a cooling stratosphere fit into your model? How does the non-uniformity of temperature increases fit into your model?

 

[level.eleven]

Though a fiction writer, Addams had it right. The arrogance of Mankind make him believe that not only can he control his surroundings completely, but that he is the most intelligent being in the universe.

While a wonderful novel for 12 year old children, it falls short as a benchmark for science. Science is the quest to understand the world in which we live. And yes, man is the most intelligent species we have encountered; that is a rather easy proof. He is also constantly manipulating his surroundings for his benefit. Using the earths atmosphere to contain the orbit of satellites to facilitate communication, damning rivers to harness energy and provide clean water to millions via reservoirs, fortifying the soil to increase crop yields...this list could go on for quite some time.

 

[smokingman]

12-year low in solar "irradiance": Careful measurements by several NASA spacecraft show that the sun's brightness has dropped by 0.02% at visible wavelengths and 6% at extreme UV wavelengths since the solar minimum of 1996. The changes so far are not enough to reverse the course of global warming, but there are some other significant side-effects: Earth's upper atmosphere is heated less by the sun and it is therefore less "puffed up." Satellites in low Earth orbit experience less atmospheric drag, extending their operational lifetimes. Unfortunately, space junk also remains longer in Earth orbit, increasing hazards to spacecraft and satellites.Since the Space Age began in the 1950s, solar activity has been generally high, notes Hathaway. Five of the ten most intense solar cycles on record have occurred in the last 50 years.
http://science.nasa.gov/media/medialibrary/2009/03/31/01apr_deepsolarminimum_resources/pianoplot.jpg
Looks like the solar cycles in the early 1800s and 1900s where much lower in activity than the last 30-50 years.
IPS - The Sun and Solar Activity - Graphs of Historical Solar Cycles

"Most scientists agree that greenhouse gases from fossil fuels have contributed to the warming of the planet in the past few decades but have questioned whether a brighter Sun is also responsible for rising temperatures." and "Dr Bill Burrows, a climatologist and a member of the Royal Meteorological Society, welcomed Dr Solanki’s research. "While the established view remains that the sun cannot be responsible for all the climate changes we have seen in the past 50 years or so, this study is certainly significant," he said." and "Dr David Viner, the senior research scientist at the University of East Anglia’s climatic research unit, said the research showed that the sun did have an effect on global warming.



My point is the above post is simple.Science can not work when politicians decide what part they choose to promote and what parts to ignore.
Do humans adversely affect the planet,no doubt.From 1550 to 1850 we experienced a mini Ice age(NASA figures not mine),the cause according to NASA was a low in the solar activity,volcanoes,and changes in ocean circulation.
Solar activity (sunspots)are over double what they where during the Maunder minimum(1650-1720)and the Dalton Minimum(1790-1820),which means the sun is putting out more energy.Those minimums represent a 1C-4C drop in temperatures globally and locally on average.So to say humans have caused global warming since the 1900s and there is no other cause is asinine.If the sun can cause a mini ice age,why can it also not cause warming?

 

[KJQ6945]

climatologists aren't rocket scientists.

So, this big glowing thing in the sky makes heat?

 

[BigMatt]

These are the easiest examples for people to understand when it comes to natural climate shift - Viking farms in Greenland and bountiful vineyards in England.

Climategate – Greenland Another Inconvenient Truth « Tory Aardvark

RealClimate: Medieval warmth and English wine

level.eleven, what about these facts I posted before that you ignored?

 

[level.eleven]

level.eleven, what about these facts I posted before that you ignored?

Matt, you need to read the article on vineyards. I am unsure as to why you are using it as a rebuttal to climate change.

However, one can conclude that those who are using the medieval English vineyards as a ‘counter-proof’ to the idea of present day global warming are just blowing smoke (or possibly drinking too much Californian). If they are a good proxy, then England is warmer now, and if they are not…. well, why talk about them in this context at all?

The second paragraph clearly states that winemaking is not a reliable proxy for climate change. I agree with the author of the article. Please read the links you post. I mean, the article is under the subsection "responses to common contrarian arguments".

I can't comment on the Viking link. I was able to find the original paper(PDF). There is a climate section on page 51 of the pdf. My historical knowledge of Vikings prevents me from forming an opinion. I am also unable to trackdown any commentary on the finds with regard to climate change. I would assume the same question needs to asked of the farm as that of vineyards. Is this piece of anecdotal evidence a reliable proxy for climate change?

Regarding historical climate change in Greenland:

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/s4/f2/dsk2/ftp04/mq22551.pdf (original)

Greenland Used to be Green – A Few Things Ill Considered - this one addresses your farm scenario

Climate variability in West Greenland during the past 1500 years: evidence from a high-resolution marine palynological record from Disko Bay - RIBEIRO - 2011 - Boreas - Wiley Online Library

Did climate change cause Greenland's ancient Viking community to collapse?

Before you feverishly google for your next smoking gun, give it a read first. In addition, I thought you have been researching this for decades? Decades of research has only brought you to anecdotal evidence? These are common views that have been debunked long ago but remain on climate change denial blogs in bullet point list form. It is amazing they continue to be trotted out as if they are iron clad evidence.

 

[GunSlinger]

I still haven't figured out why scientists can tell us what the weather will be in 30 years when we can't with any degree of assuredness predict what the weather will be in three days.

 

[jrogers]

"Climate" and "weather" are not the same thing and cannot be used interchangeably.

 

[MTC]

... research showed that the sun did have an effect on global warming.

Ya think? The big yellow ball in the sky.

Doesn't matter to me what the temperature is. Some want to use the "science" for political purposes, i.e. as a justification to impose through taxes and "regulations" what or how much we may drive, how much we may be graciously "allowed" to consume, and otherwise to control our lives.