Have you ever tried to argue with an idiot?

[goinggreyfast]

One does need exercise some care in "picking verses," if that's going to be one's approach.

Some of the above citations clearly apply to the state/courts and not the individual. Deut 24:16 is a good example.

Like I said: "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his house, his possessions are safe." - Luke 11:21

 

[nate1865]

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him.

The way of the fool is right in their own eyes, but the end is destruction.

--------------------

She may think it wise to avoid defending herself, but that foolish decision will end in her destruction.

 

[Mr. Habib]

If your interested in convincing her, these might help.
The Bible and self-defense
What does the Bible say about self-defense?
Command Briefs: Bible Affirms Our Right to Self-Defense
A Biblical Framework: Self Defense and Christianity, Part 1

 

[goinggreyfast]

If your interested in convincing her, these might help.
The Bible and self-defense
What does the Bible say about self-defense?
Command Briefs: Bible Affirms Our Right to Self-Defense
A Biblical Framework: Self Defense and Christianity, Part 1

Great stuff, thanks!!!

 

[jbombelli]

I respect deities; I do not rely upon them.
--Musashi Miyamoto, 1653, at Ichijoji Temple

 

[rambone]

Have you ever tried to argue with an idiot?

I tried but then he blocked my posts from his view on INGO.

I am a licensed Clergyperson

Licensed? Who requires you to have a license? I thought we had freedom of religion. Have they taken that from us too by making us get a License to Preach?

 

[cosermann]

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him. . ..

Or, "Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit." Prov. 26:5.

One of the points of v 4-5 (which initially make one go, "huh?") is that it depends on the situation and how one answers.

 

[Regionnus Rattis]

Probably never read her Bible deep enough to know that nowhere in it does it say not to have a weapon to protect your family, or someone else...quite the opposite in fact.

 

[strahd71]

if she is that liberal she probably doesn't believe in the bible anyhow............ just sayin, it seems to go with the territory

Jake

 

[Compatriot G]

if she is that liberal she probably doesn't believe in the bible anyhow............ just sayin, it seems to go with the territory

Jake

In my experiences, I have met people like this and they are very well versed in the Bible. Unfortunately, they are pacifists and they mistakenly believe that any resistance is contrary to scriptures. They take the examples of where Christians didn't resist religious persecution and apply that to all situations.

The Bible is pretty clear that self-defense against common criminals is perfectly acceptable.

 

[goinggreyfast]

I tried but then he blocked my posts from his view on INGO.



Licensed? Who requires you to have a license? I thought we had freedom of religion. Have they taken that from us too by making us get a License to Preach?

Not going to argue the point with you dude, but a "license" from a legally recognized not-for-profit church affiliation allows me access to some areas--as a chaplin--where others are not allowed. (s.a. certain areas of prisons, hospitals, etc for ministry purposes.) It also serves as documentation to governmental agencies and the like when I serve as a missionary overseas. Nobody is messing with anyone else's right to free speech and to preach. You can relax now.

 

[EdC]

OP, I've read through all the posts and I'm not entirely sure about the lady's position from the snippets of conversation, and maybe that's all there is to go on.

Was it your understanding that her position was that she would not try to resist at all if someone broke down her door, or that she wouldn't use a gun? I know she gave the old "if it's God's will, then it's God's will" answer regarding guns, but did the conversation ever come back around to the more general subject of self defense?

She might have been reacting solely to the gun issue when she answered, and didn't think it through.

I just find it impossible to believe that a person, even a pacifist, would not resist whatsoever if someone was hurting their child. Would she use OC, a baseball, anything less than lethal, to defend her child? I'm just not clear on that.

 

[Johnny C]

I gotta go with 1 Timothy 5:8 myself.

Johnny C

 

[Gabriel]

I just listened with a smile on my face, knowing there was no way to change her mind, like I knew there was no way she could change mine or his.

Ever had that conversation?

Everytime I visit INGO.

 

[Beau]

My neighbor is is big anti-gun. She was at a party at our house, and the subject of guns came up. One of my buddies asked her "If you knew someone was one the other side of that door trying to break in to harm you or your kids, wouldn't you want a gun?" At that she said, "No. If God decides it's my time to go, then it's my time to go."

Of course I explained to her that some crack addict was not going to decide if it was my time or not, but she just said "Nope you're right, God will" At that point, my buddy just got fired up, and tried like hell to convince her she was wrong. I just listened with a smile on my face, knowing there was no way to change her mind, like I knew there was no way she could change mine or his.

Ever had that conversation?

I have not read past the 1st post so hopefully this has not been said.

I can understand her viewpoint. I used to make dumb statements like that. For instance I used to refuse to wear my seatbelt when I was younger. I would tell my mom that if it was my time to go a seatbelt wouldn't make a difference. The thing I didn't see back then was that if I wreck I may not die. I'd just be a lot more hurt than if I had been wearing my seatbelt.

So my response to her would have been, What if it's not your time to go? What if he just wants to get in and beat you half to death and rape your daughter or son while you lay on the floor a bloody pulp watching through the one eye you can still see out of? Do you think God wants that? Maybe it's the guys time to go and God wants to use you as the means to speed him on his way.

 

[Concerned Citizen]

OP, I've read through all the posts and I'm not entirely sure about the lady's position from the snippets of conversation, and maybe that's all there is to go on.

Was it your understanding that her position was that she would not try to resist at all if someone broke down her door, or that she wouldn't use a gun? I know she gave the old "if it's God's will, then it's God's will" answer regarding guns, but did the conversation ever come back around to the more general subject of self defense?

She might have been reacting solely to the gun issue when she answered, and didn't think it through.

I just find it impossible to believe that a person, even a pacifist, would not resist whatsoever if someone was hurting their child. Would she use OC, a baseball, anything less than lethal, to defend her child? I'm just not clear on that.

I think she was mostly reacting to the gun issue. You may be able to say that you're a total pacifist, but when it comes time that your children are in danger, instinct is going to kick in, and you will do everything in your power to protect them. I did not get into all of the what if scenarios, because once she said the comment about her daughter, I was dumbfounded, and got up and went outside to sit by the fire.

If your interested in convincing her, these might help.
The Bible and self-defense
What does the Bible say about self-defense?
Command Briefs: Bible Affirms Our Right to Self-Defense
A Biblical Framework: Self Defense and Christianity, Part 1

Great links, thank you!

 

[Concerned Citizen]

"If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed. He should make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft" (Exodus 22: 2-3.) He who steals into another’s home bears the responsibility of his criminal action. Self-defence is not a crime, it is our moral responsibility

 

[Concerned Citizen]

This is the best article I've read yet, from keep & bear arms.com:
Keep and Bear Arms - Gun Owners Home Page - 2nd Amendment Supporters

And in it has an example of the exact scenario that came up in our conversation:

"Consider the situation of a mother in a rough Los Angeles neighborhood, moments after an escaped psychopathic murderer has broken into her house," suggests David B. Kopel. "The woman has good reason to fear that the intruder is about to slaughter her three children. If she does not shoot him with her .38 special, the children will be dead before the police arrive. Is the woman's moral obligation to murmur "violence engenders violence," and keep her handgun in the drawer while her children die? Or is the mother's moral duty to save her children, and shoot the intruder?" ("Does God Believe In Gun Control?")​

 

[Caleb]

The pastor that married my wife and I also said that the Bible originally said "murder" as in hate. He has no problem defending his family with a gun and told me I'm always welcomed to carry at his church.

 

[Mr.JAG]

I'm not religious at all, but I did grow up in the church.

The main fallacy with this woman's "believes" is that God allows for free will. Perhaps people understand a different interpretation than I do, but to me "free will" means that God will not/cannot interfere with people's actions/decisions. Meaning, God isn't going to save you from that crackhead on the other side of the door NOR he didn't make the decision that it was "your time to go". In this situation, your survival really is completely up to you.

To answer the original question: I learned my lesson long ago about arguing with idiots. I never won a single argument and I hate losing, so I stopped doing it.