HOA letter, what are the odds they side in my favor?

[churchmouse]

Update! I know this will surprise no one, after almost three weeks of trying to contact the management company rep, he immediately went full respect my authorita. Went from citing the code to it can't be on the property, he's gotten several complaints, and I should know that boats aren't allowed in an HOA. When I pointed out that we are complying with the code he immediately jumped to attorneys and telling the board that I'm a jerk.

Time to see if I can get onto the board or at least make some friends.

You wounded his manhood. Or what he imagines is his man hood.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

You wounded his manhood. Or what he imagines is his man hood.

Maybe he should pay him a visit and literally "wound" his manhood. As in a good swift kick in the nuts.

 

[maxwelhse]

Update! I know this will surprise no one, after almost three weeks of trying to contact the management company rep, he immediately went full respect my authorita. Went from citing the code to it can't be on the property, he's gotten several complaints, and I should know that boats aren't allowed in an HOA. When I pointed out that we are complying with the code he immediately jumped to attorneys and telling the board that I'm a jerk.

Time to see if I can get onto the board or at least make some friends.

Didn't everyone pretty unanimously agree that your best option was to ignore them, get your stuff done, get it out of there, and then never speak of it again?

I'm curious why you were working so hard to contact them for them to tell you exactly what you were pretty sure was coming?

Sounds like it's time to revert to plan A and beg for forgiveness later rather than hope new found friends can somehow grant permission.

 

[jkaetz]

Didn't everyone pretty unanimously agree that your best option was to ignore them, get your stuff done, get it out of there, and then never speak of it again?

I'm curious why you were working so hard to contact them for them to tell you exactly what you were pretty sure was coming?

Sounds like it's time to revert to plan A and beg for forgiveness later rather than hope new found friends can somehow grant permission.

I plant to live in the neighborhood for a while and it would like to see the HOA run by the homeowners rather than a management company. In that vein i will see what i can do. I don't expect permission in this instance.

I foolishly believed that the management company would respect the rules as written instead of interpreting them. I'm sure they wouldn't allow a homeowner to interpret a rule in their favor.

 

[maxwelhse]

I foolishly believed that the management company would respect the rules as written instead of interpreting them. I'm sure they wouldn't allow a homeowner to interpret a rule in their favor.

I'm not trying to be a jerk by agreeing with you here, but... I agree with you here.

 

[jkaetz]

I'm not trying to be a jerk by agreeing with you here, but... I agree with you here.

No worries, I agree with you agreeing with me. . It's a flaw of mine, I default to thinking people will follow the established rules/do the right thing until they show me otherwise. In this case it was clear in the first 30 seconds that it didn't matter what i had to say.

 

[maxwelhse]

No worries, I agree with you agreeing with me. . It's a flaw of mine, I default to thinking people will follow the established rules/do the right thing until they show me otherwise. In this case it was clear in the first 30 seconds that it didn't matter what i had to say.

Unfortunately I've been trained to expect the worst from people, especially where petty amounts of either money or power are concerned, and patiently await to be pleasantly surprised from to time to time.

You ran into someone with a petty amount of power and they wielded it with as much authority as possible. Par for the course.

 

[IndyIN]

Update! I know this will surprise no one, after almost three weeks of trying to contact the management company rep, he immediately went full respect my authorita. Went from citing the code to it can't be on the property, he's gotten several complaints, and I should know that boats aren't allowed in an HOA. When I pointed out that we are complying with the code he immediately jumped to attorneys and telling the board that I'm a jerk.

Time to see if I can get onto the board or at least make some friends.

You have to decide how far you want to push it... not dealing with power-hungry VOLUNTEERS has some value, at least to me. When I’ve had problems with my board and management company, I’ve smiled the best that I can and asked them to send me the concern in writing. Since I have trouble correctly interpreting the covenants, references to the exact language that is of concern. They will either produce it or not, but it will buy you a little more time to get your work done and the boat gone.

 

[Ingomike]

I plant to live in the neighborhood for a while and it would like to see the HOA run by the homeowners rather than a management company. In that vein i will see what i can do. I don't expect permission in this instance.

I foolishly believed that the management company would respect the rules as written instead of interpreting them. I'm sure they wouldn't allow a homeowner to interpret a rule in their favor.

An HOA is "run" by the homeowners (unless developer still controls), the management company does what they are told by the board, which is homeowners. Most management companies are given the covenants and told to enforce them. Why would they want to mess with making their job harder by making the rules tougher on themselves? It just is not logical. Although I will grant one could run into a power hungry employee. The board is generally the entity pushing the rules, the management company is just the tool.

Have you verified what the covenant in particular says about trailers? Have you discussed that covenant and interpretation with a board member? I would love to see what is written in the covenant, not in a condensed list of rules, and the difference in interpretation by the HOA.

What would a HOA "run" by homeowners look like? Random neighbors running the books, handling the money, paying the bills, filing the taxes, keeping the charter up to date, etc.? And of course neighbors confronting neighbors when the covenants are broken. Not how I want my HOA "run". Wait until a homeowner takes all the money, it happens a lot. A management company is just that, a management tool for the board and they both keep each other honest...

 

[OurDee]

 

[Ingomike]

Sounds like a lack of knowledge to me. If one wants himself and his neighbors to have the freedom to do anything legal on their property they should buy a home and land without an HOA, That simple.

On the other hand if one is investing hard earned money into a home and land maybe it would be prudent to have a contractual agreement with the neighbors as to just what the limits are concerning what one may do outside the home. The closer the homes are the more important having an agreement as to how the owners will maintain their properties. All this HOA angst is so misplaced, largely because many folks don't pay attention to the covenants when buying the property and they live with the remorse that they failed to understand them, then get mad when neighbors want them enforced against them. (This is a general explaination not directed at anyone in particular.)

I truly hope my posts in this thread will open minds as to why HOA's exist and to damn well check the covenants before you buy to see if you can live with them. It is too big a purchase not to be happy where you live...

 

[BugI02]

Unfortunately I've been trained to expect the worst from people, especially where petty amounts of either money or power are concerned, and patiently await to be pleasantly surprised from to time to time.

You ran into someone with a petty amount of power and they wielded it with as much authority as possible. Par for the course.

There is pretty much an inverse relationship between someone's actual amount of power and their willingness to use it

 

[WebSnyper]

An HOA is "run" by the homeowners (unless developer still controls), the management company does what they are told by the board, which is homeowners. Most management companies are given the covenants and told to enforce them. Why would they want to mess with making their job harder by making the rules tougher on themselves? It just is not logical. Although I will grant one could run into a power hungry employee. The board is generally the entity pushing the rules, the management company is just the tool.

Have you verified what the covenant in particular says about trailers? Have you discussed that covenant and interpretation with a board member? I would love to see what is written in the covenant, not in a condensed list of rules, and the difference in interpretation by the HOA.

What would a HOA "run" by homeowners look like? Random neighbors running the books, handling the money, paying the bills, filing the taxes, keeping the charter up to date, etc.? And of course neighbors confronting neighbors when the covenants are broken. Not how I want my HOA "run". Wait until a homeowner takes all the money, it happens a lot. A management company is just that, a management tool for the board and they both keep each other honest...

Both my current house and my previous were in neighborhoods with HOAs that were actually run by the homeowners and not a mgmt company. I was never on the board, nor did I want to, but I did show up to the annual meeting, and any others that may have been called for the homeowners and not just the board to attend. Both seem to run generally well, and I believe a couple of signatures were required for expenditures, etc so some protections on the $, and less overhead $ than the mgmt company.

My previous neighborhood wasn't huge so that probably made a difference (I think like 110 or so lots/homes), and the current one is larger but broken up into zones with representation from each zone, etc.

There was no attempting to hide behind the mgmt company which was nice, even though as you say, the mgmt company is just an administrator.

 

[Ingomike]

Both my current house and my previous were in neighborhoods with HOAs that were actually run by the homeowners and not a mgmt company. I was never on the board, nor did I want to, but I did show up to the annual meeting, and any others that may have been called for the homeowners and not just the board to attend. Both seem to run generally well, and I believe a couple of signatures were required for expenditures, etc so some protections on the $, and less overhead $ than the mgmt company.

My previous neighborhood wasn't huge so that probably made a difference (I think like 110 or so lots/homes), and the current one is larger but broken up into zones with representation from each zone, etc.

There was no attempting to hide behind the mgmt company which was nice, even though as you say, the mgmt company is just an administrator.

It certainly can be done but it generally becomes a burden to those capable and willing to serve and give up their time expertise for the benefit of the neighborhood. (Just so the neighbors that are not capable or willing to do the work also don't pay.) I will serve on a board and have many times, however, I am not so neighborly that I will do the management part as a volunteer. Also one would need to look into liability insurance if one were taking on the management responsibilities beyond the general coverage board members get from the HOA policy.

It it is pretty awkward for neighbors to have to directly confront neighbors over violations of the covenant agreement. Much better to have an administrator handle it and act as the liaison between the board and homeowner. Just for the record I have had to do that personally, it is brutal.

 

[maxwelhse]

There is pretty much an inverse relationship between someone's actual amount of power and their willingness to use it

Indeed... I've also had more trouble over completely petty amounts of money than I have when dealing with stuff costing well into the thousands.

It seems that in most cases the right people generally end up in those positions. There will always be exceptions, of course.

 

[Gluemanz28]

 

[Ingomike]

Rep sent...

 

[two70]

Without HOAs what would petty, would be tyrants who lack the skills and likability to get elected to political office do with themselves?

 

[jkaetz]

An HOA is "run" by the homeowners (unless developer still controls), the management company does what they are told by the board, which is homeowners. Most management companies are given the covenants and told to enforce them. Why would they want to mess with making their job harder by making the rules tougher on themselves? It just is not logical. Although I will grant one could run into a power hungry employee. The board is generally the entity pushing the rules, the management company is just the tool.

Have you verified what the covenant in particular says about trailers? Have you discussed that covenant and interpretation with a board member? I would love to see what is written in the covenant, not in a condensed list of rules, and the difference in interpretation by the HOA.

What would a HOA "run" by homeowners look like? Random neighbors running the books, handling the money, paying the bills, filing the taxes, keeping the charter up to date, etc.? And of course neighbors confronting neighbors when the covenants are broken. Not how I want my HOA "run". Wait until a homeowner takes all the money, it happens a lot. A management company is just that, a management tool for the board and they both keep each other honest...

Official docs sent in PM. The only notation about trailers is the quote in the OP.

I may be off base but I suspect the management company is simply being a management company as this is what they are paid to do. I also believe that they are enforcing the rules created by the developer. Given that I started by attempting to talk to them. I expected a conversation but quickly realized I was talking to the cop on the side of the road. Thus I will reach out to the board and see how in love they are with the existing covenants and management company. I doubt the homeowners really need a rule that states garage doors can only be open for ingress and egress or dictates exactly how many and what kinds of trees/shrubs must be planted. IMO the cost of the housing is directly connected to how nice it will be kept with or without strict HOA rules/enforcement. This neighborhood has only ~90 homes and very likely doesn't need to be policed beyond real codified legal issues. That said, all roads may end up leading to the same end result but at least I will have given it a go. If I do nothing it is a grantee that nothing will change.

It certainly can be done but it generally becomes a burden to those capable and willing to serve and give up their time expertise for the benefit of the neighborhood. (Just so the neighbors that are not capable or willing to do the work also don't pay.) I will serve on a board and have many times, however, I am not so neighborly that I will do the management part as a volunteer. Also one would need to look into liability insurance if one were taking on the management responsibilities beyond the general coverage board members get from the HOA policy.

It it is pretty awkward for neighbors to have to directly confront neighbors over violations of the covenant agreement. Much better to have an administrator handle it and act as the liaison between the board and homeowner. Just for the record I have had to do that personally, it is brutal.

Yes, but if the HOA has skin in the game, then they will be less likely to attempt to enforce petty things like grass that's slightly too high or Christmas lights that weren't taken down immediately after the holiday. Only the truly obnoxious/problematic things will be addressed.

 

[JettaKnight]

Official docs sent in PM. The only notation about trailers is the quote in the OP.

I may be off base but I suspect the management company is simply being a management company as this is what they are paid to do. I also believe that they are enforcing the rules created by the developer. Given that I started by attempting to talk to them. I expected a conversation but quickly realized I was talking to the cop on the side of the road. Thus I will reach out to the board and see how in love they are with the existing covenants and management company. I doubt the homeowners really need a rule that states garage doors can only be open for ingress and egress or dictates exactly how many and what kinds of trees/shrubs must be planted. IMO the cost of the housing is directly connected to how nice it will be kept with or without strict HOA rules/enforcement. This neighborhood has only ~90 homes and very likely doesn't need to be policed beyond real codified legal issues. That said, all roads may end up leading to the same end result but at least I will have given it a go. If I do nothing it is a grantee that nothing will change.

Yes, but if the HOA has skin in the game, then they will be less likely to attempt to enforce petty things like grass that's slightly too high or Christmas lights that weren't taken down immediately after the holiday. Only the truly obnoxious/problematic things will be addressed.

If you're serious, reverting to self-management can be done. I'm not exactly sure if that requires a full vote, or just a board decision - YMMV. You at least need a willing president and treasurer (those position would likely come with some compensation). If we can do it with 800+ homes, anyone can. In fact, we've looked at what a mgmt co. would cost us... Paying our president, secretary, treasurer, newsletter author, & maintenance mngr is far more economical, and yields a better result. Again, YMMV.

As to changing covenants - that can be done, too. With only ~90 homes, it's a lot easier than my situation of over 800. I tried, but it was a futile task.