Home defense setups

[throttletony]

We have done real world tests with everything that is set out for HD.
If you wake up from a dead sleep in a dark or near dark house and turn on a 600 Lumen light you are toast. I know this from my own stupidity.
I have such a light next to my 1911 with the Tlr1 that I use when the search will take me outside. By the time I get to the door using the Tlr1 my eyes are coming around and there is little to no glare back off of white walls.

The HL is a bit too bright, be nice if you could adjust/half power it.

Glad to see I'm not the only one thinking this

 

[dudley0]

Right now, I'm testing a 300BO AR pistol with a suppressor for HD. So far, so good. Close to 200 rounds in without a failure. With a bit more through it, I'll call it good. Subsonic 300BO should be good for indoors use without a huge amount of over penetration. Plus, there's 30 of them on tap, so it has the high capacity covered.

Have a can on a 300 blk as well. I have been running subs in it, but just not sure if that is where I want to go, ballistically. 220 gr subs are just about like a .45 acp. speed and weight wise.

I like the 110 gr black tips. They are supers of course, but still hearing safe with the can. Still have not vetted the 300 enough to trust it, so my 10.5" 5.56 is at the bedside still.

What rounds do you carry in yours?

 

[dtthomps]

i would suggest a Keltech Sub 2000 in 9mm and run whatever defense ammo you want. they have rail attachments and handguard upgrades for that gun as well.

 

[Ggreen]

i would suggest a Keltech Sub 2000 in 9mm and run whatever defense ammo you want. they have rail attachments and handguard upgrades for that gun as well.

I'm selling my sub2k. I bought it shot it and hate it. I should have just saved and put a little more into scorpion or a cx4...

 

[dtthomps]

I'm selling my sub2k. I bought it shot it and hate it. I should have just saved and put a little more into scorpion or a cx4...

what about it did you hate? recoil? sights? ergonomics? I don't hear too many people say they hate the 9mm Sub2000 but to each their own. Get that scorpion ha ha I want one to!

 

[Ggreen]

what about it did you hate? recoil? sights? ergonomics? I don't hear too many people say they hate the 9mm Sub2000 but to each their own. Get that scorpion ha ha I want one to!

Most of what I dislike could be remedied but by the time I invest that into it I could have had a scorpion, so I'm ditching it before their popularity dies. They have more felt recoil than my ar, so why take the power loss, the sights are not great, I cannot find a comfortable cheek weld, the buttstock feels like a plastic 2x4, charging handle is counterintuitive and cumbersome, magazines need to be pulled out on a regular basis... All fine for a backpack gun but I would prefer something else in a self defense situation. On the bright side it folds in half....

 

[dtthomps]

Most of what I dislike could be remedied but by the time I invest that into it I could have had a scorpion, so I'm ditching it before their popularity dies. They have more felt recoil than my ar, so why take the power loss, the sights are not great, I cannot find a comfortable cheek weld, the buttstock feels like a plastic 2x4, charging handle is counterintuitive and cumbersome, magazines need to be pulled out on a regular basis... All fine for a backpack gun but I would prefer something else in a self defense situation. On the bright side it folds in half....

fair enough! let us know how the scorpion is

 

[Bfish]

I only want the laser as a last resort if my glasses get knocked off of my nightstand in the heart of the moment. It's just a backup. And the reason i did not care too much for the C5L I would rather a paddle selection for light then light laser.

I have to 100% agree with TriggerTime on the whole laser philosophy. And even without glasses if you can see a laser you should also be able to see your front sight...

For all of the guys talking 300 in the thread, that's what I had setup for awhile. I had some really sweet loads from EBR in it that I know will preform in subsonic ranges. It's most certainly quiet too. I had a hard time leaving supers behind, but I seem to be ok with it. I haven't shot much of the EBR stuff (it's expensive). But I've got over 1k of subs I've loaded up through it no problem... Truth be told though right now I've got my old trust 5.56 sbr next to the bed for some reason I don't know. Some times I think I like looking at it more, and other times I think it's because I've beat it up and I don't care about what happens to it and me banging it around and stuff. The rifles got some scratches and the cans been banged on a bit etc. So I'm just happier with it sitting out. As much as I don't always want to be a "gun guy" I still am...

 

[churchmouse]

Most of what I dislike could be remedied but by the time I invest that into it I could have had a scorpion, so I'm ditching it before their popularity dies. They have more felt recoil than my ar, so why take the power loss, the sights are not great, I cannot find a comfortable cheek weld, the buttstock feels like a plastic 2x4, charging handle is counterintuitive and cumbersome, magazines need to be pulled out on a regular basis... All fine for a backpack gun but I would prefer something else in a self defense situation. On the bright side it folds in half....

Uh......................it's a Keltec.

 

[Ggreen]

Uh......................it's a Keltec.

I should have learned my lesson years ago when I bought into the P3AT hype.....

 

[markholst]

His and Hers. Sig P320, 21 rd mag and S&W M&P9, 15 rd mag, Streamlight TRL-2 with trigger guard remote button.

 

[Trigger Time]

I think the best home defense gun is a shotgun. After that an AR-15.
I have an 870 in an electronic gun lock at my bed. Kids can't get it but I can almost instantly. It's ready to go and doesn't talk back.
Next to it i have an AR in an electronic gun lock.
Then I have a pistol in one. I have a wrist band that I touch to the lock and it opens.
I have lights on all 3

When I'm not in bed I always have a pistol on my body, except in the shower I have a fast magnet and my gun goes into a zip lock bag on it.
Your home is most likely where you will need your gun.

 

[Hohn]

JMO:

Unless you are running a can, rule out an AR for HD. I'm not going to save my life only to spend it deaf.

All guns overpenetrate drywall. PERIOD. If you are that worried about overpenetration, skip the firearm and move on the something like a spear or knife or bear spray. Worry more about not penetrating the BG sufficiently than about penetrating the wall excessively.

Shotguns are mostly too powerful for users to control under duress, and there's no such thing as a fast follow up. Contrary to myth, racking a pump isn't actually home defense. And you are VERY likely to short-shuck under stress unless you've trained a bunch or are inhumanly immune to adrenaline.

HD doesn't need a ton of firepower. There's no reason to choose ammo capacity and muzzle energy you don't need at the expense of simplicity and quick handling that you DO need in that moment.

Because simplicity is so important, I'm a fan of a DA revolver for HD. You can get one with a rail for a light, or just practice your over/under light technique with the other hand. Alternatively, a good DA pistol (226, P-09, CZ75)

If you can handle the risk of a manual safety for HD (most won't train enough), then a PCC is probably excellent.


Speed and accuracy. You don't need moose-killing power or a 50rd drum. You need to be able to put 3-4 shots on target ASAP under dark conditions when you might not be awake. Hence the RDS/LASER/Light, etc

Given that, some people might even be best served by a 10-shot .22LR revolver.

 

[88E30M50]

Have a can on a 300 blk as well. I have been running subs in it, but just not sure if that is where I want to go, ballistically. 220 gr subs are just about like a .45 acp. speed and weight wise.

I like the 110 gr black tips. They are supers of course, but still hearing safe with the can. Still have not vetted the 300 enough to trust it, so my 10.5" 5.56 is at the bedside still.

What rounds do you carry in yours?

Right now, I'm running a bunch of ArmsCor 208g AMax and Hornady 208g AMax subs. I bought a bunch last year, so that's what I've been focusing on to vet the gun. I've also run some 220g through it and those run well, but I don't have much of a supply of them.

For those that don't have a can for their HD weapon, make sure that you keep an amplified headset close by. If you do hear a bump in the night, they'll both amplify sound and protect your hearing. A decent set for HD can be bought for under $30. Your goal in HD is to protect you and your family from injury. Permanent hearing damage is an injury you don't have to accept in all but extreme cases.

 

[Ggreen]

I think the best home defense gun is a shotgun. After that an AR-15.
I have an 870 in an electronic gun lock at my bed. Kids can't get it but I can almost instantly. It's ready to go and doesn't talk back.
Next to it i have an AR in an electronic gun lock.
Then I have a pistol in one. I have a wrist band that I touch to the lock and it opens.
I have lights on all 3

When I'm not in bed I always have a pistol on my body, except in the shower I have a fast magnet and my gun goes into a zip lock bag on it.
Your home is most likely where you will need your gun.

I feel better about an AR after taking a skills and drills class at mtac. I am still not comfortable enough with my point of aim at 3 and 5 feet to consider it a good option for me. It's a lot harder to be on target that close than most think...

 

[uberpeck]

Spend some time to research suppressors. 150 decibels indoors, along with muzzle flash, can temporarily deafen and blind (at night) you. This is detrimental to both you and your family. Being able to function effectively after the first shot is essential. To me the extra expense involved is worth money.

 

[Ggreen]

JMO:

Unless you are running a can, rule out an AR for HD. I'm not going to save my life only to spend it deaf.

All guns overpenetrate drywall. PERIOD. If you are that worried about overpenetration, skip the firearm and move on the something like a spear or knife or bear spray. Worry more about not penetrating the BG sufficiently than about penetrating the wall excessively.

Shotguns are mostly too powerful for users to control under duress, and there's no such thing as a fast follow up. Contrary to myth, racking a pump isn't actually home defense. And you are VERY likely to short-shuck under stress unless you've trained a bunch or are inhumanly immune to adrenaline.

HD doesn't need a ton of firepower. There's no reason to choose ammo capacity and muzzle energy you don't need at the expense of simplicity and quick handling that you DO need in that moment.

Because simplicity is so important, I'm a fan of a DA revolver for HD. You can get one with a rail for a light, or just practice your over/under light technique with the other hand. Alternatively, a good DA pistol (226, P-09, CZ75)

If you can handle the risk of a manual safety for HD (most won't train enough), then a PCC is probably excellent.


Speed and accuracy. You don't need moose-killing power or a 50rd drum. You need to be able to put 3-4 shots on target ASAP under dark conditions when you might not be awake. Hence the RDS/LASER/Light, etc

Given that, some people might even be best served by a 10-shot .22LR revolver.

I disagree with most of what you have here. I make it a point to watch surveillance cameras of break-ins and gun fights weekly.

If drawing a firearm doesn't send the intruder running, must self defense shootings take more than 5 or 6 shots to stop the threat. That's way too close for comfort considering how long it takes to reload a revolver.

My defensive shotgun is a semi auto 11-87, it is faster to get back on target than a loud unruly revolver. But I can't remember how young I was when I started toting a 20ga 870 around. Kind of grew up with shotguns.

357 python that my grandpa had was a fun gun to shoot. But turn the lights out and all you see is a fireball and your ears won't recover from the noise of running 6 shots rapidly.

I had a friend get shot with a 22 in the neck and head, the neck missed all vital arteries. The head shot went under his skin and did not penetrate the skull just rode around it under the skin. According to him neither knocked him of his feet. On the other hand a close member of the family killed himself with a 22 but that was open mouth. A 22 is as effective as pepper spray in my book.

3-4 shots is great for someone not tweaking. Let's be honest tho, the nightman crawling through your window trying to grab your PlayStation is not likely to pass a drug test, and less likely to fail only for marijuana. A pistol holding less than 12 rounds can put you in a bad place. Lots of videos of guys running and firing after multiple hits from a pistol.

Not to mention the wide availability of plates and carriers, 6 is not enough.

I completely agree with lights and lasers tho. You don't go from rem sleep to John wick when a window breaks.

 

[Ggreen]

Spend some time to research suppressors. 150 decibels indoors, along with muzzle flash, can temporarily deafen and blind (at night) you. This is detrimental to both you and your family. Being able to function effectively after the first shot is essential. To me the extra expense involved is worth money.

I'm definitely looking into a silencer. Threaded barrel was one of the needs on my first post.

 

[Trigger Time]

Right now, I'm running a bunch of ArmsCor 208g AMax and Hornady 208g AMax subs. I bought a bunch last year, so that's what I've been focusing on to vet the gun. I've also run some 220g through it and those run well, but I don't have much of a supply of them.

For those that don't have a can for their HD weapon, make sure that you keep an amplified headset close by. If you do hear a bump in the night, they'll both amplify sound and protect your hearing. A decent set for HD can be bought for under $30. Your goal in HD is to protect you and your family from injury. Permanent hearing damage is an injury you don't have to accept in all but extreme cases.

Some of the best advice posted so far. I also keep an electronic headset next to the bed. I think maybe you and I had discussed this in a thread a while back.
It's solid advice. Thanks for posting that Tim!

I keep a suppressor on my AR that's by my bed. Its still pretty loud inside but it cuts way down on muzzle flash and concussion. That's the main benefits inside for sure.
I think a lot of people will be surprise how innacurate they will be with a pistol inside and under stress. A long gun is more accurate because you can control it better. Shotguns also will not pattern out like people think either, but it's still gonna hit a larger surface area than a .223 or a ( ) insert pistol caliber here.
Be trained with whatever weapon you intend to use and in the environment you intend to use it in. There are.just way too many places that offer good training in all environments to pass up. No excuses. Even if you are frail and disabled they will accommodate you. Train how you will fight.

 

[88E30M50]

Some of the best advice posted so far. I also keep an electronic headset next to the bed. I think maybe you and I had discussed this in a thread a while back.
It's solid advice. Thanks for posting that Tim!

I keep a suppressor on my AR that's by my bed. Its still pretty loud inside but it cuts way down on muzzle flash and concussion. That's the main benefits inside for sure.
I think a lot of people will be surprise how innacurate they will be with a pistol inside and under stress. A long gun is more accurate because you can control it better. Shotguns also will not pattern out like people think either, but it's still gonna hit a larger surface area than a .223 or a ( ) insert pistol caliber here.
Be trained with whatever weapon you intend to use and in the environment you intend to use it in. There are.just way too many places that offer good training in all environments to pass up. No excuses. Even if you are frail and disabled they will accommodate you. Train how you will fight.

I'm sure that we have discussed this before. It's great advice that I did not come up with on my own.