How much is an optic worth?

[rhino]

You could also swap barrels for something lighter? Maybe fluting or carbon fiber?

 

[Hop]

Apologies for veering a bit off course OP. This little 1.5-5x Loopy scope looks very good at 50+ yards & is SO SO light. I can tell it needs a touch of parallax correction at 25 yds but I can work around that. This would be a great scope for Run-N-Gun. I used my 4x ACOG at the last Run-N-Gun and it was nearly perfect (has a top mounted RDS for 0-50 yds). I was wishing for just a touch more magnification to hit the 10" steel at 300 yards & the Loopy, with 5x, might have done better. My 1-4X PST feels like carrying a tank in comparison.

Rhino, I might have to swap barrels. Tapered & straight barrels are OK, fluted are illegal. This Kidd barrel shoots sub MOA with more than one brand of ammo.

I just emailed tech support to get a weight on this stock:
https://shopkahrfirearmsgroup.com/m...-ridge-22-lr-ambidextrous-thumbhole-stock.asp

Man, if you thought setting up an AR-15 was bad, these 10/22 are almost worse! I'm going to end up with nearly enough parts to build another rifle.

 

[mmpsteve]

Man, if you thought setting up an AR-15 was bad, these 10/22 are almost worse! I'm going to end up with nearly enough parts to build another rifle.

Seems like a win/win situation. (Two for the price of one, kinda)

 

[1nderbeard]

I know people talk about Nikon being cheap, but they do offer no fault lifetime warranties on their product. For example:
years after I purchased a discontinued model clearance Nikon 3-9 x 40 I just came to the determination that it wasn't very easily holding zero. Not all that surprising as I paid maybe $100 for it. Vision through the scope is fine, it just looses zero after 4-5 shots.
Nikon is either going to fix or replace. The only thing I paid is shipping to Nikon.
I just can't see spending more than $500 for a bells and whistles scope when 1 - I don't shoot more than 150 yards with much or any regularity and 2 - Nikon will replace of fix forever.

 

[Ggreen]

I know people talk about Nikon being cheap, but they do offer no fault lifetime warranties on their product. For example:
years after I purchased a discontinued model clearance Nikon 3-9 x 40 I just came to the determination that it wasn't very easily holding zero. Not all that surprising as I paid maybe $100 for it. Vision through the scope is fine, it just looses zero after 4-5 shots.
Nikon is either going to fix or replace. The only thing I paid is shipping to Nikon.
I just can't see spending more than $500 for a bells and whistles scope when 1 - I don't shoot more than 150 yards with much or any regularity and 2 - Nikon will replace of fix forever.

That lifetime warranty won't help you when you are in the field with that once in a lifetimer 175 yards out, or on the line at a match. You are far from the first person to complain about losing zero or wandering crosshairs with nikon. Why mess with the hassle? I would be a very sad panda if I had a bead on a once in a lifetime buck only to miss low, or even worse miss high letting the bullet travel into unintended woods where hunters could be roaming. Could also be costly if you were to hit an antlerless deer standing close to your intended target when you only have a buck tag. I recently shot a match (poorly but I was in the 9 ring allday) at more than 200 yards, one poor guy hit paper once out of 15 scored shots. This really highlighted the need for an optic that is built well enough to stay where you put it, including rings and mount rail. I'll take initial build quality and confidence over a lifetime warranty anyday.

 

[rhino]

I recently got a super deal from Alan at A&A Optics (INGO advertiser!) on a Vortex Diamondback Tactical 3-9X, plus some Warne rings and an EGW 20 MOA base. I have it all mounted and hope to get it shooting soon.

 

[STFU]

Vortex, Sightron, Weaver, SWFA, etc... all offer MUCH better scopes for the same money.

Plus 1 on Vortex. I have several Vortex scopes and they have been flawless.
Lifetime and "no-questions asked" warranty also.

 

[1nderbeard]

That lifetime warranty won't help you when you are in the field with that once in a lifetimer 175 yards out, or on the line at a match. You are far from the first person to complain about losing zero or wandering crosshairs with nikon. Why mess with the hassle? I would be a very sad panda if I had a bead on a once in a lifetime buck only to miss low, or even worse miss high letting the bullet travel into unintended woods where hunters could be roaming. Could also be costly if you were to hit an antlerless deer standing close to your intended target when you only have a buck tag. I recently shot a match (poorly but I was in the 9 ring allday) at more than 200 yards, one poor guy hit paper once out of 15 scored shots. This really highlighted the need for an optic that is built well enough to stay where you put it, including rings and mount rail. I'll take initial build quality and confidence over a lifetime warranty anyday.

I'm not talking about match shooting. I don't even own a gun I'd shoot matches with at this point other than a low stress rimfire match. I'm just talking about casual 100yd or cow pasture shooting here. And obviously if I thought the rifle system would put a bullet where I did not intend it to go I wouldn't even casually shoot it.
My argument is simply that you can still learn on cheap stuff.

 

[Hohn]

That lifetime warranty won't help you when you are in the field with that once in a lifetimer 175 yards out, or on the line at a match. .... I'll take initial build quality and confidence over a lifetime warranty anyday.

THIS X 1000.

A warranty is a poor substitute for initial quality.

Given my recent experience with a $300 SWFA, I see no reason to ever go with Nikon again. The SWFA is triple the quality at a small premium.

Lots of great optics out there now, no reason to be particularly brand loyal. Find a good deal on a good scope of any brand and move on.

 

[Ggreen]

I'm not talking about match shooting. I don't even own a gun I'd shoot matches with at this point other than a low stress rimfire match. I'm just talking about casual 100yd or cow pasture shooting here. And obviously if I thought the rifle system would put a bullet where I did not intend it to go I wouldn't even casually shoot it.
My argument is simply that you can still learn on cheap stuff.

Match shooting tends to be a lot more casual than most make it out to be. Lots of run what you brung. The guy who won the day had a discount savage 223 bolt gun with a vortex and factory ammo. I think he was probably close to one of the least expensive set ups there. I agree you can learn cheap, but when it comes to optics there is just no need to accept mediocrity. There are so many good value scopes on the market. Nikons based on my personal exp (m223) and many many forum posts are high failure scopes, operating in a high risk task of showing the shooter where the bullet is supposed to go. I don't think a leupold vx3i is necessary for everyone. I also see zero value in a warranty on an optic, by the time you realize you need it fixed you've already missed. In the middle of deer season sending a scope in for a warranty issue is going to cost me money to replace it, because it won't be back the next morning. It just seems to me that you hear a lot of "best cheap" "for the money" "their warranty service is good" and "it's good for a cheap scope" when talking about mainline Nikon, generally terms I avoid as I have found they end up costing me more money in the long run.

 

[Ggreen]

THIS X 1000.

A warranty is a poor substitute for initial quality.

Given my recent experience with a $300 SWFA, I see no reason to ever go with Nikon again. The SWFA is triple the quality at a small premium.

Lots of great optics out there now, no reason to be particularly brand loyal. Find a good deal on a good scope of any brand and move on.

SWFA is good people as well. I make the drive to their storefront every time I'm in dallas on business. They also can set you up with super high quality used optics for extremely fair prices. Their house brand optics are very good. I've got a 1-4 ffp on my 300blk. Simple, robust, and rock solid.

 

[1nderbeard]

Match shooting tends to be a lot more casual than most make it out to be. Lots of run what you brung. The guy who won the day had a discount savage 223 bolt gun with a vortex and factory ammo. I think he was probably close to one of the least expensive set ups there. I agree you can learn cheap, but when it comes to optics there is just no need to accept mediocrity. There are so many good value scopes on the market. Nikons based on my personal exp (m223) and many many forum posts are high failure scopes, operating in a high risk task of showing the shooter where the bullet is supposed to go. I don't think a leupold vx3i is necessary for everyone. I also see zero value in a warranty on an optic, by the time you realize you need it fixed you've already missed. In the middle of deer season sending a scope in for a warranty issue is going to cost me money to replace it, because it won't be back the next morning. It just seems to me that you hear a lot of "best cheap" "for the money" "their warranty service is good" and "it's good for a cheap scope" when talking about mainline Nikon, generally terms I avoid as I have found they end up costing me more money in the long run.

Yes I don't dispute your comments on the cost of missing out because the scope doesn't work. And I haven't put a ton of rounds through the other rifle I have a Nikon on, but I can comment that it typically shoots where it points. It's just an old Mosin I sporterized and use surplus ammo on so I'm getting 3-4 inches anyway.
The Nikon I used most is the one that's just on a plinking gun. I tend to give the most shooting time to the rifles that I'm not as confident in. I'm a bit of a perfectionist in that regard; I want stuff to work for me and if it doesn't I want to know why.
I have 2 prospective deer rifles I'll spend some time verifying toward the fall.
I've only been shooting rifles regularly for 3-4 years, and only been hunting for the last 3.

 

[Hohn]

SWFA is good people as well. I make the drive to their storefront every time I'm in dallas on business. They also can set you up with super high quality used optics for extremely fair prices. Their house brand optics are very good. I've got a 1-4 ffp on my 300blk. Simple, robust, and rock solid.

I have their classic 12x on my AR just to see how accurate my DDm4V11 is (Sub-moa with Winchester 69smk match ammo!).

I'm moving it to my CZ455 which spends life as a plinking/target gun.

I'd consider their fixed 6x for a dual AR setup with a 6X underneath an RMR. Their scope mount lets you put a short 1913 rail (straight or offset) on top of the scope ring. Truly a clever setup.

Problem is their "classic" line scopes are pretty heavy and big for AR duty. And the parallax adjustment that's so useful for a target gun is a real pain for anything that moves (i.e. hunting/tactical). I'm sure their variables are much better in this regard than their classic fixed mag scopes, but I've only the one data point with the 12x.

 

[Gabriel]

Because Nikons have plastic guts and do not track or last long term. If all you do is dial in zero once and don't shoot your rifle as much as people on these boards do, they'll do fine. But if you are at the range and dial your shots, they won't cut the proverbial mustard.

You can take that same money you would spend on Nikon and buy something that would actually work very well. Nikon skimps on the guts of the scope that you can't see in order to maximize their profits. That's the issue people that actually know something about scopes have with Nikon.

I learn something every day. Nikon has been knocked off my list of optics for one of my rimfires.

 

[Areoflyer09]

I learn something every day. Nikon has been knocked off my list of optics for one of my rimfires.

My Nikon Rimfire 3-9 has been on 2 bolt actions and a 22 AR in the last 6 months. It’s been adjusted and goes back to zero and holds it each time. It’s bright, clear and easy to use. Of the 3 under $200 optics I have, it’s better than my Crossfire II but not quite as nice as VX-1.

For as as much as people rave over Vortex, I’ve been 50/50 on them. Love my Razor, hate the Crossfire II. The Crossfire has been bumped from my rifles as my wife liked it for awhile but it’s already scheduled to be replaced on her rifle, it’s current home. Equal light sources, the Crossfire is always the darkest of the 3.

 

[SSE]

You reallly need to check out the Athlon Argos 6-24 or 8-34 FFP scopes. Way better than they should be for the money. Also you can get them alot cheaper from a dealer than from an outlet like Opticsplanet.

 

[Gabriel]

My Nikon Rimfire 3-9 has been on 2 bolt actions and a 22 AR in the last 6 months. It’s been adjusted and goes back to zero and holds it each time. It’s bright, clear and easy to use. Of the 3 under $200 optics I have, it’s better than my Crossfire II but not quite as nice as VX-1.

For as as much as people rave over Vortex, I’ve been 50/50 on them. Love my Razor, hate the Crossfire II. The Crossfire has been bumped from my rifles as my wife liked it for awhile but it’s already scheduled to be replaced on her rifle, it’s current home. Equal light sources, the Crossfire is always the darkest of the 3.

I like Vortex, but wouldn't buy a Crossfire. My other rimfire has a PST Gen II on it and I like it quite a bit.

I am trying not to go nuts on this one. It has a Viper 1-4 on it right now that I stole off another rifle, but it's just temporary until I find something I really want to put on it. The Strike Eagle 3-18 is high on the list.

 

[Areoflyer09]

I like Vortex, but wouldn't buy a Crossfire. My other rimfire has a PST Gen II on it and I like it quite a bit.

I am trying not to go nuts on this one. It has a Viper 1-4 on it right now that I stole off another rifle, but it's just temporary until I find something I really want to put on it. The Strike Eagle 3-18 is high on the list.

I love the Razor HD LH that’s on my X-Ring, but I just regret buying the Crossfire. The only reason I splurged on the Razor was the glass quality and the ability to adjust the parallax to 20 yards.

I’ve been looking for something new on my Tippmann. The favorite at the moment is the Nikon Force1000 1-4, but the Strike Eagle 1-6 is on the list still.

 

[Ggreen]

https://swfa.com/swfa-ss-1-4x24-tactical-30mm-riflescope-kit-111029.html

Check these out for the same money as that Nikon. You can shoot mine sometime

 

[KJQ6945]

https://swfa.com/swfa-ss-1-4x24-tactical-30mm-riflescope-kit-111029.html

Check these out for the same money as that Nikon. You can shoot mine sometime

How does that compare against a viper PST. I got a refurb 2.5-10x32 for not much more money.