How to grip?

[cedartop]

Even if you feel your grip and resulting accuracy are acceptable, I bet you can take accuracy to the next level with a two thumbs forward grip. Don't give up if it doesn't work better right away, practice dry firing to see which exact grip holds those sites 100% steady after pulling the trigger. Once you get the grip that is steadiest, then practice that muscle memory when picking up the gun. Repeat as necessary to improve muscle memory. You should be able to do this without ammo, in your bedroom, within a half hour each time until it feels like the only way you want to hold the weapon.

We haven't talked about trigger pull, but I assume everyone knows to only use the tip of your index finger on the trigger (this is common to all firearms, not just pistols). I have big hands, so I must bend my right wrist back almost as far as it will go in order to keep my index finger from protruding through the trigger guard too far. This has a hidden benefit of lining the backstrap and recoil from the pistol up with the center of my forearm. Again, even a single handed grip is far from natural for me because of this.

I will admit that I am envious when someone says they can be acurate without much effort on the grip, since it has literally taken me years to refine my technique to the point where I can hit dead center to where I aim.

I assume by tip of the finger, you mean about midway on the pad between the distal joint and end of the finger? If you mean the actual tip, I don't agree.

 

[the1kidd03]

I assume by tip of the finger, you mean about midway on the pad between the distal joint and end of the finger? If you mean the actual tip, I don't agree.

You know how hard this is when you've had it severed at that knuckle LOL......but I think that is what he meant and I would agree....sometime I use the "power joint" though...I can't avoid it

 

[Coach]

I am a fair shot and hold like Jeff Cooper but I see there is some room for improvement in what I am doing and teaching my kids. Maybe some adjustment needed.. I think hand size dictates a lot about how you grip you pistol and differs from gun to gun wit grip width.

I don't agree about hand size for the most part at the extremes of little hands or giants perhaps. But for most humans not so much. High on the gun, thumbs forward and as much contact with the hands as possible. I do agree hand size can matter about how deep the trigger finger can get on the trigger, but I find it less of a problem actually gripping the gun for most people. With respect to the trigger finger there is where we would like it to be and where some folks can reach. But even little stubby fingers like Rhino has can grip the gun with two thumbs forward. Unless you are talking about tiny guns then I agree. Those tiny guns suck.

If you run into a problem thought with the finger or the grip I have been amazed at how much of a difference the adustable backstraps on modern guns can make.

 

[thompal]

With muscle memory you dont even need the gun to have a good grip.
If you are not as good as I am you can just train at home with your gun (empty of course, or blue gun) and grip the gun over and over again.
Grab it from a table, grip it, put it back ... etc.
That builds muscle memory and you will grip the gun better when you are at the range.
You can also use a target on your wall to work on your sights as well.
Once again double and triple check that the gun is unloaded if you do that with a real gun, have a safe direction and such.

When I was a kid, my dad would have me face the target, CLOSE MY EYES, draw the pistol and aim it at the target, then open my eyes to see where the gun was really aimed.

And then repeat that until it was always aimed at the target when I opened my eyes.

His reasoning was "what if you have to draw and shoot when it's so dark that you can't see your sights?"

It's amazing the thought processes that a WWII Marine who served in the South Pacific has.

 

[Mosinowner]

I use a ''tactical'' grip\

not me but best pic of it I could find

 

[Sylvain]

I use a ''tactical'' grip\

not me but best pic of it I could find

You mean the other grips are not "tactical"?
It looks like the Jack Bauer's grip, even if he doesn't have the same stance.

If you got it from the TV show I hope you have better trigger discipline than Mr.Bauer though.

 

[Mosinowner]

Didn't get it from 24. Look what happens to Jack everyone wants to kill him because of his lack of gun safety

 

[David Rose]

Something worth remembering when considering grip or any other technique related to shooting is what is the goal you are trying to achieve. The goals in this case are fast, accurate, consistent follow up shots and the ability to move the gun to the next target quickly and consistently. The goal is not to look this way or that, feel comfortable, isolate accuracy or speed. This is where a target and a timer come in handy. You'll find when the splits get in the .20 range and bellow (5-7 shots per second) that some of those other grips don't hold up. Define your goals and proceed accordingly. If your goal is to look like Jack you're right on track.

 

[churchmouse]

I don't agree about hand size for the most part at the extremes of little hands or giants perhaps. But for most humans not so much. High on the gun, thumbs forward and as much contact with the hands as possible. I do agree hand size can matter about how deep the trigger finger can get on the trigger, but I find it less of a problem actually gripping the gun for most people. With respect to the trigger finger there is where we would like it to be and where some folks can reach. But even little stubby fingers like Rhino has can grip the gun with two thumbs forward. Unless you are talking about tiny guns then I agree. Those tiny guns suck.

If you run into a problem thought with the finger or the grip I have been amazed at how much of a difference the adustable backstraps on modern guns can make.

Good points. We shoot mainly 1911's and all have the good spring housings but no real adjustments as you mention. My thoughts on hand size are from grip width mainly. My daughter can not find a comfort zone with my 1911 Para ordinance P-12. It is an officers size double stack hi-cap .45 ACP. She loves the gun but has an issue with the width of the grips. I am working with her on this as we should all be able to use anything that is available. She does well with a single stack 1911.
I am seeing that there are new and better ideas out there. Time to attend some classes. Always room for improvement.
I am seeing a problem with the stance in the video at least for me. I was taught an "A" frame advancing stance at a very young age by my army ranger uncles. It is hard for me to stand square up on the target. Never stop learning

 

[netsecurity]

Yes, I meant the pad of the index finger, not curling up and using the tip of my fingernail or anything like that. Just commom sense.

Adjustable back straps are an excellent improvement Im sure. One size does not fit all. It would be nice to be able to widen the hand grips too though. I think most newer guns with adjustable back straps dont take third party (ie Hogue) grips.

Most people I know with smaller hands are the ones that seem to be the naturals. I like my Beretta 92fs with added thick Hogue grips. The bigger the handle the more surface area contact, and better it feels to me. Im buying a Beretta PX4 next weekend and Ill see how well those adjustable back straps work.

 

[Boz]

All types of grips and stances can work to hit the target. However, I have found that the Isocoles (sp?) works best for me if I have to shoot AND move. In a weaver stance, I have less upper-body mobility. When I trained at TDI several years back, they taught Isocoles for this reason. The terminology I remember was "like a gun on a turret." This always stuck with me. I learned Weaver first, and was quite comfortable with it, but use Isocoles exclusively now when doing tactical type training. I still use Weaver sometimes for static standing-in-one-place and shooting paper targets.

I really do think all different types of methods can be viable. For instance, even when using Isocoles, I switch to a very modified weaver-type stance for entering rooms and slicing-the-pie type operations.

 

[the1kidd03]

All types of grips and stances can work to hit the target. However, I have found that the Isocoles (sp?) works best for me if I have to shoot AND move. In a weaver stance, I have less upper-body mobility. When I trained at TDI several years back, they taught Isocoles for this reason. The terminology I remember was "like a gun on a turret." This always stuck with me. I learned Weaver first, and was quite comfortable with it, but use Isocoles exclusively now when doing tactical type training. I still use Weaver sometimes for static standing-in-one-place and shooting paper targets.

I really do think all different types of methods can be viable. For instance, even when using Isocoles, I switch to a very modified weaver-type stance for entering rooms and slicing-the-pie type operations.

This "gun on a turret" theory is how military are trained now a days. Many combat instructors actually use the same phrase. I used the Weaver stance for a while when I was younger. Once I learned of the Isoceles I found it to be much more stable, natural, and thus provided for more consistent accuracy. That's not to say someone can't be accurate with weaver, but rather I think for most people they will find greater consistent accuracy coming easier and with less practice using the Isoceles. That's not verifiable of course, just a theory from a man who's used both for some time and converted to one.

 

[churchmouse]

I took all this to the range today and I did struggle with some of the stance and grip changes. That was amplified by it being a bit cold but hey, we do not choose where something might come down so work in all weather. I see merit in the thumbs forward grip but I am going to have issues with the square on stance. My son and daughter enjoyed my struggles as they out shot the old man but they also know once mastered these things will be coming their way.
Great advice and good ideas from all.

 

[netsecurity]

I dont think the stance is nearly as important as the grip. Seriously, practice the grip by dry firing an empty pistol. I do this while lying in bed sometimes. Dry firing is only bad for rimfire 22 pistols really. The most important thing is finding a grip that holds the sites absolutely steady through your trigger pull. It sounds easy, but it is not. Take your natural grip first and notice how much the sites shake, or perhaps just shift to the left or right. You cant notice these movements with live ammo because of the recoil. Get it perfected before wasting ammo at the range.

Thats my input. Im passionate about it because learning to shoot a pistol accurately was one of the most difficult things for me. Most of us have shot long guns since childhood and expect pistols to be point and sboot like that, but theres a lot more to it isnt there.

 

[churchmouse]

If I am dry firing I put a spent case in the chamber for the pin to land on. Just a personal thing. I am actually having more trouble with the triggers on my HK USP and the other plastic guns. Having used 1911's most of my life I have trouble with the long trigger pull in these guns. They are great guns I just am having grip and trigger finger position issues. I put a laser on one today and you can see the laser track left and down just before I get to the sweet spot. No issues with the 1911's.
Thanks for the input. I am afraid my wife would freak right the hell out if I was dry firing a pistol in bed. She is a great gal but has her limits. Great input, I love that.

 

[Billy Bob Chubb]

I am afraid my wife would freak right the hell out if I was dry firing a pistol in bed. She is a great gal but has her limits. Great input, I love that.

She'll learn. I have my wife convinced now that an unloaded handgun is no more dangerous than an empty beer bottle...and I have those in bed all the time!

 

[churchmouse]

She'll learn. I have my wife convinced now that an unloaded handgun is no more dangerous than an empty beer bottle...and I have those in bed all the time!

Guess I'm in the right place.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

She'll learn. I have my wife convinced now that an unloaded handgun is no more dangerous than an empty beer bottle...and I have those in bed all the time!

Rule number 1:

Treat a gun as if it is loaded at all times.




There is no such thing as an unloaded gun in principle.

 

[Sylvain]

Rule number 1:

Treat a gun as if it is loaded at all times.




There is no such thing as an unloaded gun in principle.

+1

Most accident happen with "unloaded" guns.

 

[actaeon277]

Rule number 1:

Treat a gun as if it is loaded at all times.




There is no such thing as an unloaded gun in principle.

Yes. That CAN NOT be stressed enough.
How many people have you seen in the news shot by an UNLOADED gun.