Hunting deer from your house?!?

[iChokePeople]

He is hunting on his own property, but he is making use of a public good (the deer). It is well within the state's power to regulate the usage of this public good.

It's well within the government's power to regulate if and how we carry guns, too... So I guess we're all in agreement that it must be right.?

 

[HICKMAN]

He is hunting on his own property, but he is making use of a public good (the deer). It is well within the state's power to regulate the usage of this public good.

which he would be doing by buying hunting tags.


Saying it's okay to plant food plots and use scents is good but not okay for using other bait is hypocritical.

I'd be happy if they'd at least allow harvesting does over bait, since we can so many with bonus antlerless tags.

 

[Kveldulf]

It's well within the government's power to regulate if and how we carry guns, too... So I guess we're all in agreement that it must be right.?

It is not necessarily within the government's power to regulate that, as your guns are not a public good (see McDonald v. City of Chicago). My point is that the deer is a public good, and your use of that public good affects the way others can use it. If you could hunt how you pleased, we would have a tragedy of the commons situation (which is partly responsible for the rapid decline in deer population at the start of the twentieth century). There are also other concerns as well, of which some very reasonable ones are presented in the Michigan DNR paper I posted earlier.

If you had a stream running through your property, can you dump whatever you want into it? Can you build a dam? Obviously not without permission from the state government, as this affects all others who own property adjacent to the stream (and others if it affects the water table). This is similar to the deer situation. The deer on the land aren't the landowner's deer. (Unless you ensure that they remain on your property and you take care for their health. In that case you are engaging in agriculture, not hunting.) They wander from property to property, and it is well within the govenment's right to ensure that everyone gets a fair shake at this public good. Remember that private property rights are not absolute. For all rights, you have the right to exercise them as you please, so long as it doesn't interfere with anyone else's ability to do the same. There is very strong evidence suggesting that baiting DOES interfere with the health of the deer population and the movements of the deer in a way that is detrimental to them, and to other hunters' ability to hunt them.

 

[Kveldulf]

which he would be doing by buying hunting tags.


Saying it's okay to plant food plots and use scents is good but not okay for using other bait is hypocritical.

I'd be happy if they'd at least allow harvesting does over bait, since we can so many with bonus antlerless tags.

See my above post. It has been determined that those permitted activities don't greatly affect another hunter's ability to hunt, nor do they affect the health of the deer significantly. There are very real differences between planting and baiting concerning the potential to be a vector for disease.

 

[singlestacksig]

See my above post. It has been determined that those permitted activities don't greatly affect another hunter's ability to hunt, nor do they affect the health of the deer significantly. There are very real differences between planting and baiting concerning the potential to be a vector for disease.

the health argument is kind of made null by the lack of regulation on feeding the deer, many people feed deer , in fact some anti hunting people near me put feeders out during deer seasons to try to draw the deer away from hunt areas..

 

[Kveldulf]

the health argument is kind of made null by the lack of regulation on feeding the deer, many people feed deer , in fact some anti hunting people near me put feeders out during deer seasons to try to draw the deer away from hunt areas..

It is not made null. These "counterexamples" simply color the issue. The DNR recommends against feeding wild animals for health, however they cannot explicitly forbid the activity among nonhunters because of plausible deniability issues. I fail to see that this somehow nullifies the issue of deer health.

 

[singlestacksig]

It is not made null. These "counterexamples" simply color the issue. The DNR recommends against feeding wild animals for health, however they cannot explicitly forbid the activity among nonhunters because of plausible deniability issues. I fail to see that this somehow nullifies the issue of deer health.

Someone who feeds deer often, and sometimes year round Vs someone who feeds for a short period of time and removes that deer from the population.. If the State does not want to regulate the feeding of deer by non hunters then I don't think the health issue of baiting is worth any "salt"
I am not in favor of baiting, or feeding, but I don't think baiting is that much of a health issue..

 

[Fireman85]

A true deer hunter doesn't need the law to tell him or her that it is wrong to use bait. I feel like you shouldn't be hunting if you are not good enough or don't want to be serious enough to truly hunt the animal.

 

[HICKMAN]

A true deer hunter doesn't need the law to tell him or her that it is wrong to use bait. I feel like you shouldn't be hunting if you are not good enough or don't want to be serious enough to truly hunt the animal.

so you only use a traditional bow and wooden arrows, right?

 

[HICKMAN]

See my above post. It has been determined that those permitted activities don't greatly affect another hunter's ability to hunt, nor do they affect the health of the deer significantly. There are very real differences between planting and baiting concerning the potential to be a vector for disease.

then why are all of the state laws different?

 

[teddy12b]

so you only use a traditional bow and wooden arrows, right?

No, under this logic only a real man who is a real hunter will jump on the bucks back and break it's neck with his bear hands.

 

[Kveldulf]

then why are all of the state laws different?

It depends on how much of a risk baiting is judged to be by each state. In Indiana, our "wilderness" is much more fragmented than it is in areas such as northern Michigan, causing shifts in movement patterns. Any law or regulation not forced on the states by the federal government is bound to vary from area to area depending on the needs or concerns of a state government.

A true deer hunter doesn't need the law to tell him or her that it is wrong to use bait. I feel like you shouldn't be hunting if you are not good enough or don't want to be serious enough to truly hunt the animal.

I feel a true hunter should also be a conservationist. He/she should engage in and respect hunting practices that ensure a harvest for as many as possible while still ensuring future generations can enjoy the outdoors as much as we do. This is a delicate balance to walk and compromises must be made. I feel the Indiana DNR has done a good job walking that balance with its regulations. This includes its policies concerning baiting; it potentially poses a very real health risk to the deer population.

 

[iChokePeople]

It depends on how much of a risk baiting is judged to be by each state. In Indiana, our "wilderness" is much more fragmented than it is in areas such as northern Michigan, causing shifts in movement patterns. Any law or regulation not forced on the states by the federal government is bound to vary from area to area depending on the needs or concerns of a state government.



I feel a true hunter should also be a conservationist. He/she should engage in and respect hunting practices that ensure a harvest for as many as possible while still ensuring future generations can enjoy the outdoors as much as we do. This is a delicate balance to walk and compromises must be made. I feel the Indiana DNR has done a good job walking that balance with its regulations. This includes its policies concerning baiting; it potentially poses a very real health risk to the deer population.

What's it like working for the DNR? Good job?

 

[teddy12b]

The way I see there are just too many games that the law tries to play with regards to deer hunting. Bottom line is that you're killing a deer. Some people do it for the fun and sport, others do it as an affordable way to get a large amount of meat for their family. There's no point saying ones right or wrong and there certainly is no point dividing hunters against each other on the issue.

The issue of using bait as a supplement and saying that it's not really hunting is a really great way of saying that you don't understand how baiting works. Have you ever put a worm on a hook and not caught a fish? I have. Have you ever put a worm on a hook and had a fish get away after cleaning you hook? I have. I don't see the difference between sitting next to a small pile of corn, apples or whatever, or sitting on the edge of a large field of corn or apple orchard. The idea that one is ethical and the other is not is just absurd.

I've hunted deer in the upper peninsula of Michigan over bait. The "guide" threw about a two handfuls of corn out there and a couple of apples. About the only thing that showed up were squirrels. There was a doe that stopped by later and it gave me the chance to watch her react to both a doe bleat, and a buck grunt. I used the opportunity to learn a deer reaction to those calls. That was on day one of a week long hunt, and no deer were seen for the rest of the week over the "bait".

I've hunted black bear in Ontario and Maine over bait and out of four total trips I've seen bears hit bait twice. It's not uncommon for 1/2 to maybe 2/3 of the guys at the camps to see a bear while the other guys don't see anything over their baits.

Back to the original topic, but so what if a guy shoots a deer out of the window of his house. Why do people feel the need to act like a drama queen and tell him how to kill his deer? If he stands up and thumps his chest about being the great white hunter, then sure put him in his place, but the idea that a guy can't shoot a deer on his property any way he chooses just offends me.

The whole drama queen attitude extends into the bow hunters vs gun hunters every year also. I've always heard bow guys talk smack to gun hunters about being a real hunter and getting close with bow and how that's real hunting. Like you can't get close with a gun in your hand or something. Then they pull out some counterbalanced bow, with fiber optic sights set for different distances on their compound bow setup at a weight that they otherwise couldn't pull back. Then tough guys lecture about real hunting, then pull out one of those and expect me to agree. To me a real bow is a stick with a string. If I'm not man enough to pull it back and hold it myself then I don't need to be hunting deer with it.

Personally I'd like to see Indiana copy some of the Carolina's laws and just have one season where everyone can hunt at any time with the weapon of their choice. It spreads the hunters out instead of packing everyone in during gun season, and just let hunters use what they want to use.

I apologize for my ranting, but the bottom line is that people just got to stop acting like some little junior high school drama queen on the cheerleading squad. So long as nobody is getting hurt and no property is getting damaged just let people hunt however they want to. If that mean a gun barrel sticking out the window when I guy happens to look up and see one then so be it.

 

[iChokePeople]

To paraphrase someone smart, once you've spent much time in combat hunting other men, hunting game for sport loses its appeal for many. To me, there is no sport in hunting most animals with a rifle. If I were so inclined and thought myself the mighty hunter, I would do it with primitive tools. I am not so inclined. I do, on occasion, purchase a license and take a deer for meat. I see no reason to pretend that it's sport. It is not. I've done it with rifles, muzzleloaders, [modern compound] bows, and handguns, and it has never been very sporting... especially since I moved here to the midwest. I grew up in the Rockies and had a bow hunt there one year that I still consider to have been sport and a true challenge. Here, it is harvesting, plain and simple. Of course, that's just my opinion.

 

[HICKMAN]

I feel a true hunter should also be a conservationist. He/she should engage in and respect hunting practices that ensure a harvest for as many as possible while still ensuring future generations can enjoy the outdoors as much as we do.

Good post!

I'm still pretty new to deer hunting. Started a couple of years ago and have one doe in ML season to show for it. I've eaten plenty of tag salad and don't mind at all contributing those license fees while I learn. Eventually I will learn enough and be in the right place at the right time.

My boys are learning while I learn, so it's good for all of us.

 

[teddy12b]

I feel a true hunter should also be a conservationist. He/she should engage in and respect hunting practices that ensure a harvest for as many as possible while still ensuring future generations can enjoy the outdoors as much as we do. This is a delicate balance to walk and compromises must be made. I feel the Indiana DNR has done a good job walking that balance with its regulations. This includes its policies concerning baiting; it potentially poses a very real health risk to the deer population.

I agree with a lot of that. I'd be tempted to replace the words true hunter with decent man or woman. Regardless of whether or not we hunt, we need to at least make sure it's real option for the next generation.

 

[JNG]

To paraphrase someone smart, once you've spent much time in combat hunting other men, hunting game for sport loses its appeal for many. To me, there is no sport in hunting most animals with a rifle. If I were so inclined and thought myself the mighty hunter, I would do it with primitive tools. I am not so inclined. I do, on occasion, purchase a license and take a deer for meat. I see no reason to pretend that it's sport. It is not. I've done it with rifles, muzzleloaders, [modern compound] bows, and handguns, and it has never been very sporting... especially since I moved here to the midwest. I grew up in the Rockies and had a bow hunt there one year that I still consider to have been sport and a true challenge. Here, it is harvesting, plain and simple. Of course, that's just my opinion.

If your goal is to shoot the first 110 pound doe that walks by, I agree there isn't much of a challenge.

If your opinion on the "lack of challenge" in Midwestern deer hunting extends to hunting mature midwestern bucks, you're insane. That, or you need to invite me over to show me your wall of B&C antlers . . . .

 

[Titanium Man]

After wasting a few moments of my life reading these threads, I have come to one conclusion. I now realize why CO's have such an easy time handing out tickets.

 

[jmiller676]

so you only use a traditional bow and wooden arrows, right?

I do. Every once in a great while I might take a shotgun...Skipped all gun season last year and hunted strictly bow.