I want to learn how to weld

[thunderchicken]

Credentials are OK but experience rules.

+100. All too often it just takes some short term memory from reading some study guide to pass tests anf get certification credentials.

 

[thunderchicken]

I learned that you don't need to clean grease and oil off of steel before you weld it because the flux cleans it while you're welding.

Where did you learn that?
As I have been taught, only flux core wire has flux when welding. And flux core is designed primarily for outdoor use. The flux acts as a shielding agent in place of using a gas (which wind can blow away from the weld causing porosity).

But as a general rule it's always better to have clean surfaces to weld.
There are some weld through primers used on body panels. However I would never try to weld through grease or oil of any kind.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Where did you learn that?
As I have been taught, only flux core wire has flux when welding. And flux core is designed primarily for outdoor use. The flux acts as a shielding agent in place of using a gas (which wind can blow away from the weld causing porosity).

But as a general rule it's always better to have clean surfaces to weld.
There are some weld through primers used on body panels. However I would never try to weld through grease or oil of any kind.

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

 

[churchmouse]

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

I hope so.

 

[Rookie]

Seriously, a millwright tried to convince me that you didn't need to clean metal to weld it. When I started laughing at him, he got offended.

Of course, these are the same guys that weld a hydraulic line without cleaning it and then scratch their heads when it immediately starts leaking again.

 

[churchmouse]

Seriously, a millwright tried to convince me that you didn't need to clean metal to weld it. When I started laughing at him, he got offended.

Of course, these are the same guys that weld a hydraulic line without cleaning it and then scratch their heads when it immediately starts leaking again.

The crap is burned off and becomes a vapor that kills the shielding element. Contaminates it. Worse than the Oxygen it is keeping out.

 

[thunderchicken]

Seriously, a millwright tried to convince me that you didn't need to clean metal to weld it. When I started laughing at him, he got offended.

Of course, these are the same guys that weld a hydraulic line without cleaning it and then scratch their heads when it immediately starts leaking again.

There may be some specialized products out there designed for extremely dirty environments, that I don't know about. But for most work and with the most common materials, it's not a good idea.

Again just because someone has a piece of paper saying they know what they are doing doesn't always equate to real world knowledge and experience

 

[Rookie]

Yeah, there's a reason why we have outside contractors do all the important welding.

 

[Rookie]

That "specialized product"? 7018 welding rod. Just ask any of our millwrights.

 

[churchmouse]

That "specialized product"? 7018 welding rod. Just ask any of our millwrights.

7018 is a go to rod for sure but not the end all.

 

[Rookie]

Our machines have platens that have to be as flawless as possible. When they need reworked, they're supposed to be pre heated and then welded with nickel rod before they're machined. The welding process is very time consuming, but the millwrights ain't got time for that. Fire up the MIG and lay some weld! Of course, they wonder why the platens are trash within a few years.

 

[churchmouse]

Our machines have platens that have to be as flawless as possible. When they need reworked, they're supposed to be pre heated and then welded with nickel rod before they're machined. The welding process is very time consuming, but the millwrights ain't got time for that. Fire up the MIG and lay some weld! Of course, they wonder why the platens are trash within a few years.

Spraying wire is no where near as strong as using a nickel rod.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I know squat about welding and that doesn't look right to me.

I couldn't believe anyone would think thats okay. His argument which is a common one is with a whip and pause motion he gets more penetration. But the fact that his parts break all the time proves that he doesn't know diddly squat. Because he has cards he wont listen to me when i try to help him.

I hear the Walmart bakery is hiring. That looks mighty impressive if the medium is icing.

+100. All too often it just takes some short term memory from reading some study guide to pass tests anf get certification credentials.

True dat! Years ago when I was a green cable puller, I did some very basic level Novell Networking admin stuff thanks to on the job training. We hired in a freshly minted CNA (Certified Novell Admin) to give us some help and take us to the next level since none of us were certified and just flying by the seat of our pants. During the first week he was told to do something on our box. He was clueless how to do it. I had to tell him what command to issue to get to the control panel to execute the task. I knew more than this guy and I was just an apprentice level Novell guy. He was gone within a week. He was a "paper CNA". He was good at taking tests, but useless in the real world.

 

[churchmouse]

I hear the Walmart bakery is hiring. That looks mighty impressive if the medium is icing.



True dat! Years ago when I was a green cable puller, I did some very basic level Novell Networking admin stuff thanks to on the job training. We hired in a freshly minted CNA (Certified Novell Admin) to give us some help and take us to the next level since none of us were certified and just flying by the seat of our pants. During the first week he was told to do something on our box. He was clueless how to do it. I had to tell him what command to issue to get to the control panel to execute the task. I knew more than this guy and I was just an apprentice level Novell guy. He was gone within a week. He was a "paper CNA". He was good at taking tests, but useless in the real world.

That is what we are doing to kill the work force. Requiring Certs and a plaque on the wall from some place that teaches textbook to pass tests to get paid.
I was taught the HVAC-R trade by a bunch of old dogs that showed me the ropes.

 

[Cameramonkey]

That is what we are doing to kill the work force. Requiring Certs and a plaque on the wall from some place that teaches textbook to pass tests to get paid.
I was taught the HVAC-R trade by a bunch of old dogs that showed me the ropes.

Yep. Last job fair I went to (15+ years ago) I was excluded from the IT jobs room because due to the glut of workers they chose to use 4 year degrees to weed out candidates. Simply to make their jobs easier. At that time I had 5 years equivalent relevant job experience, far more than some schmuck with a generic business degree and limited experience. But they wouldnt even talk to me.

 

[churchmouse]

Yep. Last job fair I went to (15+ years ago) I was excluded from the IT jobs room because due to the glut of workers they chose to use 4 year degrees to weed out candidates. Simply to make their jobs easier. At that time I had 5 years equivalent relevant job experience, far more than some schmuck with a generic business degree and limited experience. But they wouldnt even talk to me.

Yup. I was in the managers seat at a large HVAC-R outfit when all this credential crap started up. They had been hiring directly from trade schools and paying to much money to lure "The Good Techs" into the fold. My predecessor started this and the service dept. Was a shambles. No body could fix ****. I hired in as a tech/field super visor. It was so bad that I told them they had to fire at lest 15 of the 25 techs they had. The 10 decent techs were all looking for jobs and the 15 terrible techs thought they were HVAC gods.
They fired the service manager and enticed me into the chair. I started finding good techs I knew and bringing them in replacing the tech school dip****s. It took a while but I let 13 go in 2 months. The remaining 2 turned out to be trainable when put with a good tech.
If you "Can" do the work then do the work. If you can not do the work then move along.

 

[Rookie]

Our best supervisors were not college educated, they were hired directly off the floor. You couldn't bull**** them, they expected you to do your job, but they would stand up for you if something happened that wasn't your fault. Now we have college educated morons. You can tell them the cannuter valve is broken, and they'll believe you.

 

[churchmouse]

Our best supervisors were not college educated, they were hired directly off the floor. You couldn't bull**** them, they expected you to do your job, but they would stand up for you if something happened that wasn't your fault. Now we have college educated morons. You can tell them the cannuter valve is broken, and they'll believe you.

This is another step towards the end.

 

[Gabriel]

You can tell them the cannuter valve is broken, and they'll believe you.

Hell, I believe you and I can't even spell collage.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Hell, I believe you and I can't even spell collage.

The number of "collage" graduates on facebook makes me weep for our future. I cant even...