I want to shoot 1 mile

[Tombs]

There I said it, it’s out there.

I recently moved to Ohio and found there is a 1 mile range near me and it’s perked my interest. Added to the complication, I want to do it with a .308. The reason, besides ammo costs, is i will mostly be shooting under 800 yards, but want to try and stretch it out everyone once in awhile.

as far as my shooting ability, I have shot iron sights to 500 yards and out to 800 yards with an Acog, both in the Marines with 556. I feel strongly in my ability to be able to go the distance with glass.

The rifle, I don’t have one. I was thinking hard about the Ruger Precision, savage stealth, or starting out with a Remington 700. No glass yet, but I’m looking at Vortex and Nikons new black series, but open to anything under 1k.

I just started thinking about this and the idea is in is infancy. Has anyone shot out to 1 mile? Will I need to start reloading to get a 308 out that far?

I'd readjust your expectations, $1k for 1000 yards is pushing your budget to the EXTREME, much less a mile.

You'll want to get set up with a 338, likely custom built with the best barrel money can buy. You'll be looking at $2500-$5000 for entry level glass for that kind of range.

All toll, you'll probably want to save up about $10-$15k before you even consider doing it at a level where you can hit something using skill instead of pure luck. If you don't have experience with these kinds of rifles and that kind of distance, you'll likely need to invest in a good class.

7mm remington magnum might be a pretty viable option for it, but that's going to be at the edge of its supersonic range. That's going to be a lot cheaper than 338 though.

 

[churchmouse]

For one, you need a better forum for this kind of thing. All the evidence you need for that is the kind of things in the last 5 or 6 posts about .22LRs and Telescopes and .45-70. It's all funny unless you're serious; in that case, I recommend you get used to "your average dude" not having any concept of what you do on the weekend.

I recommend Sniper's Hide, Sniper Central, US Rifle Teams (usrifleteams.com). You are looking for "ELR", "Extreme Long Range"...things of that nature.

To be clear, there ARE people here that know things about it, but if you're serious, you need to be surrounding yourself with 10s of people who know how to do 2,000 yards.

.308 is not the way. No other way to put that...it's a TERRIBLE idea as an approach from square one. Sure, if that's what you have, then that's what you shoot...but you are not YET hamstring with a 51mm casing, so don't put yourself there intentionally. Even .30-06 is a FAR better option.

To answer another question: Bud, you need to be handloading .308 for six HUNDRED yards, much less another 1,000+ beyond that. If you are not already well versed, you need to start getting that way. Buy books, find mentors.

Despite what the internet may tell you, becoming proficient at 1,000 yards is no mean feat. Learning to read wind +/- 1 mph on that long a range...which is REQUIRED to keep a .308 inside even a TWO MOA target...is a really challenging thing to try to get the human brain to do.

I've seen good shooters lie there doing 2 rounds/minute and shade 1/3 to 1/2 of a 10" X-ring to try to stack up X count...but those shooters are almost always gray haired and overweight. That says something, if a guy listens.

-Nate

There was some very deep humor involved in that series of posts.

 

[natdscott]

So...what's wrong with .45-70 for long range shooting? Other than it's not a point blank trajectory weapon.

The Report of the Secretary of War, 1880 Vol III under the chapter "Extreme Ranges of Military Small Arms" had this to say: "The firing was done by Mr. R.T. Hare of Springfield Armory who has the enviable distinction, so far as is known, of being the only person in the world who has hit the 'Bull's-Eye' six feet in diameter at 2,500 yards with three different rifles, and who has ever fired at and hit so small a target at that described in his report at 3,200 yards." Those distances were surveyed.

This was a result of the Sandy Hook tests of 1879 where they showed the .45-70 at 2 (two) miles was not only still flying ballistic true at two miles but would go through the 8" target leg and burry itself in the ground.

And that was with open sights...none of that fancy modern glass stuff.

Thor, citing the Sandy Hook tests as gospel is as asinine as it is rhetorical in a discussion like this one.

You answered your own question when you cited a 6 foot target.... mine is 20", and this gentleman likely wants the 10" inner ring.

Can .45-70 do that? Maybe. Probably. But you know as well as I do that that is not what the OP was asking.

If he wanted information on selection of an Axtell, he would have said so by now.

But while we're here: what's with the iron sight comment? You act like that's an impossibility?

 

[Thor]

Hey you're the one who brought up .45-70. Also apparently the one who thinks no humor (and apparently history) should be applied to any discussion you feel deeply about.

 

[natdscott]

Hey you're the one who brought up .45-70. Also apparently the one who thinks no humor (and apparently history) should be applied to any discussion you feel deeply about.

Nope:

One mile? How about 2 miles?

The .45-70 at Two Miles

And no, I did not sense your humor. It's always been a challenge on internet forums. That's why I use the smiley faces early and often if I intend some emotion other than literally what I write.

If you intended humor, my apology.

But yeah. I take some of this fairly seriously. I don't deny that. As for the history, I know fairly well the history behind the sport I shoot. Knowing it, and continuing to use it (which is what I THOUGHT you were actually advocating), are two different things.

The irony being that I am using an A2 AR, which has itself been outdated for quite some time now.

-Nate

 

[Thor]

Well, you're the one who brought it up in a post I could read...

 

[natdscott]

hehehe...

-Nate

 

[Alpo]

It's an article of general interest. That you don't find it interesting matters not. Others have and do.

Not everything is going to be to your exact specifications on the internet, Nat. DBAD

The OP hasn't got a lot of stripes here yet, so it's difficult to say how informed he might be. Actually, not all that difficult.

 

[natdscott]

Don't worry Alpo, I've been criticized for taking things seriously most of my life.

The OP hasn't got a lot of stripes here yet, so it's difficult to say how informed he might be. Actually, not all that difficult.

Not having stripes on this forum is not the same as not having stripes. He plainly stated some of his background, which while maybe not extensive in all circles, was respectable. He also stated his goals, and even rifle types in consideration, along with a cartridge. Really, it was a pretty good post.

-Nate

 

[sloughfoot]

I recall very clearly an article in Precision Shooter about a group of British shooters who were getting hits on very large bullseye targets at 1500 yards. Most were getting it done with .303 rifles. Flight time was like 3 seconds. I wouldn't say that that a .308 could not do it. Guys use all kind of calibers and rifles to shoot stuff while we all just stand back and shake our heads, convinced that it can't be done....

However, I have been known to travel to Ohio to shoot Highpower out to 600 yards at various ranges. I have never heard of a ONE mile range in Ohio. Where is it?

Edit to add; I could probably find that article if anybody is interested......

 

[natdscott]

Sloughfoot, the issue I have with that isn't that it is false at all. I am aa good an example as anybody on how you probably should NOT start a course in NRA Long Range. The issue was (is?) that I have every A2 trick and tool known to man, and a lot of time on that rifle, so I "shoot what I have".

My biggest point here is that this poor sap shouldn't have to do the same. He isn't yet IN the game, so he can make all the choices the easy way from the start. .308 ain't that, despite the Brits spending family fortunes to do 1 MOA at 1,200 meters out of novelty and tradition (and you and I both know that's not far from truth).

 

[sloughfoot]

George Tubb won one of the matches by just getting 30 of 50 shots on target. Never mind the center. One mile shooting is totally impractical. If you think you are going to get a high X count its just luck. No matter how good your caliber. And none of those guys spent lots of money. They just launched .3003 or .308 bullets and took what they got.

(George is David's father)

I still want to know where....

 

[42769vette]

George Tubb won one of the matches by just getting 30 of 50 shots on target. Never mind the center. One mile shooting is totally impractical. If you think you are going to get a high X count its just luck. No matter how good your caliber. And none of those guys spent lots of money. They just launched .3003 or .308 bullets and took what they got.

(George is David's father)

I still want to know where....

The only Ohio 1 mile range I've ever shot at was Thunder valley. I'm not sure if that's what the OP is talking about, but its all I know of.

 

[DRob]

Go to the Accurate Shooter forum and search for posts by Birdog (Randy Dawson) or tclaunch (Tim Claunch). There are guys shooting up to one mile at Birdog's range (The Dasher Dome) several times a week. You will find $3K+ scopes on $5K+ rifles sitting on $1K rests. You'll find no .308s in that crowd.

 

[phylodog]

I've spoken with a few guys who shoot at Thunder Valley over the years. If you have more than a passing interest in getting to a mile I'd suggest stopping by and watching the guys who are doing it. It shouldn't take much effort to determine who knows what they're doing and who doesn't. No one casually shoots to a mile, if you see someone doing it with regularity they're probably pretty passionate about it and if approached correctly they would likely be willing to help get you started.

As has been stated already however, their advice is likely not going to parallel your expectations. I've taken the .308 to 1360 at 3500' ASL and in spite of being at the top of my game and having the best I've ever seen calling wind for me it took 7 rounds to hit the target. I had 58MOA of elevation and 11MOA of wind dialed in to my scope, like 427Vette mentioned I've never seen a sub $1000 scope capable of that. You might be able to hold for one or the other but without a Horus reticle you aren't going to have success holding for both. I'd never discourage you from trying to hit that one mile target (for fun) with a rifle you shoot at shorter distances, I was told my .308 couldn't get to that 1360 when my first round went over the top. That said, suggesting you can set out with a $2k budget and end up with a rifle capable of reliably getting you to 1 mile would be like to putting you in a round room and telling you to stand in the corner.

Build the best rifle you can and start saving money while you push it to its limits. Once you've mastered that you'll have a better idea of what you need for the next one. Long range is best treated as a marathon and not a sprint, there is a lot to be learned and it is fascinating, challenging and frustrating at times but once you achieve a goal it is very, very rewarding.

ETA: There are a handful of guys here on INGO you will be able to rely on for solid advice. Natdscott, AVBoiler, 427Vette and Sloughfoot know what they're talking about, even if they aren't in agreement over something their opinions are gonna be based on knowlege and experience rather than what they've read. Not saying other members don't stack up, I'm just familiar with these gents and the information they've provided over time.

 

[42769vette]

You still with us nojoy?

I dont think anyone here is trying to discourage you from getting into the LR game, I think we are all just trying to get you to set obtainable goal. We don't want to see you get discouraged from the sport because you cant reach your goal. Set a goal of repeatable accuracy (IE, not throwing bullets and seeing what happens, place a bullet where you want it out of the gate)at 1k. Once you get there, set a new goal of repeatable accuracy at 1200. By that point and time you will have the vocabulary built up to know what your looking for, and what it will cost to get you to 1 mile. I know this wont be what you want to hear, but what you learned shooting in the USMC at 500 yards will have very very little to do with shooting 1 mile.

My advise is to get what equipment you can afford, and get on range. You will quickly learn where you need improvement, and where your equipment needs improvement to get to the next level. Like Phylo said, its a marathon, not a sprint.

 

[Nojoy621]

I appreciate all...well most, of the feed back! And yes Thunder Valley Precision is the range I was referring to in Ohio. I admit I am a novice in this realm, and a lot of the feedback has been great.

While I’d love to dive in with something like a 338, the ammo budget just isn’t there. I think 308 is doable, but after more research I think a 300wm is better suited for my dive into ELR. I was looking at a Remington 700 in 300wm as a starting off point. This leaves me some extra cash for glass and time to save up while I work my way out further. Looking outside and seeing the snow fall, I think I’ll have some more time to save up as well!

I never inteneded to Just walk out to the range and put a round on target at 1760 yards. I understand it will take time, patience, practice and a lot of cash. I understand it’s a susbstanial goal, and I think the journey to making a shot like that is part of the fun!

 

[avboiler11]

300WM is a much better choice for ELR...but you will need to reload to maximize the performance potential let alone exceed 6.5 Creedmoor 140gr ELD-M factory ammo. You probably already know that, though.

A Remington 700 Long Range would be a fine place to start in a factory rifle, but a 700P or Sendero would be mo'betta IMO.

 

[42769vette]

I appreciate all...well most, of the feed back! And yes Thunder Valley Precision is the range I was referring to in Ohio. I admit I am a novice in this realm, and a lot of the feedback has been great.

While I’d love to dive in with something like a 338, the ammo budget just isn’t there. I think 308 is doable, but after more research I think a 300wm is better suited for my dive into ELR. I was looking at a Remington 700 in 300wm as a starting off point. This leaves me some extra cash for glass and time to save up while I work my way out further. Looking outside and seeing the snow fall, I think I’ll have some more time to save up as well!

I never inteneded to Just walk out to the range and put a round on target at 1760 yards. I understand it will take time, patience, practice and a lot of cash. I understand it’s a susbstanial goal, and I think the journey to making a shot like that is part of the fun!

300 winny would be a much better choice. Like AV said, plan to reload.

 

[Nojoy621]

I haven’t looked that closely at 6.5, is it a real contender? I’m slightly hesitant to jump into a “newer” caliber.