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I want to shoot 1 mile
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I have shot 7.62x51 out to 1200 with glass and iron sights. This was accomplished by shooting copious amounts of ammo, five days a week, on Uncle Sugar's time and Joe Tax Payer' dime.
We are talking days when we put several hundred rounds of match ammo downrange.
Trying to stretch the range another 560 yards? Hang up the. 308 and get a caliber with longer legs.
All of our long range shooting, with glass, was done with fixed 10x scopes, btw.
Keep us informed.
We are talking days when we put several hundred rounds of match ammo downrange.
Trying to stretch the range another 560 yards? Hang up the. 308 and get a caliber with longer legs.
All of our long range shooting, with glass, was done with fixed 10x scopes, btw.
Keep us informed.
This has been a super interesting read.
I am looking at getting into "regular/poor man's" long range (1000 yds) in the next year. I have not shot over 600, so bumping up to 1000 will be a blast, then I'll try beyond that.
Unless you jump up into 338 magnums or beyond (the cheytacs and others), I'd think that your caliber choices should be clearly in the 6.5 or 7mm camps.
6.5x284 / 6.5 Creedmoor / 7mm RUM or SAUM could be good contender that give better ballistics over the 7.62 breeds unless you like punishing your shoulder.
The 6mm family has a lot of viable options that will take you to 1000 quite well, but stretching beyond 1200 will be quite a bit tougher. Hell, an Ackley .243 can punch paper at 1000 very well.
Cartridge Guides
In closing, I'm jealous of these kinds of long distance shoots! Good luck.
I am looking at getting into "regular/poor man's" long range (1000 yds) in the next year. I have not shot over 600, so bumping up to 1000 will be a blast, then I'll try beyond that.
Unless you jump up into 338 magnums or beyond (the cheytacs and others), I'd think that your caliber choices should be clearly in the 6.5 or 7mm camps.
6.5x284 / 6.5 Creedmoor / 7mm RUM or SAUM could be good contender that give better ballistics over the 7.62 breeds unless you like punishing your shoulder.
The 6mm family has a lot of viable options that will take you to 1000 quite well, but stretching beyond 1200 will be quite a bit tougher. Hell, an Ackley .243 can punch paper at 1000 very well.
Cartridge Guides
In closing, I'm jealous of these kinds of long distance shoots! Good luck.
I have been following this thread because it aligns with my interest on long range precision shooting. Its the one discipline in shooting that I have little experience with.
I know myself and another INGO member would be interested if something were to come to fruition.
avboiler11
Master
ShawnAgne said:
I generally agree with this, the 6.5 Creedmoor doesn't in fact have any super powers. However, the 6.5 Creedmoor does have a better case design than 260 such that the COAL of 6.5 Creed plays better with feeding from an AICS or SR25/AR10 magazine; it also uses a half to one full grain less powder to achieve a given velocity than the 260. Of course, if you step on both to max, 260 will eek it out due solely to case capacity...
I've shot a 260 since the late 90s, but switched to 6.5 Creedmoor because even 3 years ago before it got stoopid popular it was easier to find brass for than 260 and as you said, performance is basically the same. There's also the benefit of $25-30 factory match ammo that shoots very well when reloading isn't an option, as opposed to 260 which Remington didn't support one iota and made people buy loaded match ammo from HSM, Southwest Ammo, Copper Creek for $40+/box.
You also don't need a 30" barrel to get a 140-class bullet to 2850; you can generally do that from a 26" barrel with a moderate (say, 42.5gr) charge of H4350 depending on bullet. My experience was the 140 Amax and 142 ran 25-30fps faster at a given charge weight than the 140gt HPBT I normally shot, since its .285 G7 was sufficient for my typical <650yd shooting and the price was cheap-arse friendly
But since you're talking super powers, I got (mostly) outta 6.5 Creedmoor and now shoot a Dasher...
Yes if people want to come and watch they are welcome. The only caveat to that is when we are shooting on KD6 we need to lock the gates down so if you are there as an observer we ask that you stay the entire time. Starting at around 9am a 3x1000 is done around 1200 or 1230. If we are on Range 3 this isn't as big of an issue as we don't have gates to the north to lock and you can leave when you want.
The case design of the 6.5CM doesn't have any advantage when it comes to NRA Long range or Mid-range competitions. The matches are shot slow fire and each round is loaded single into the rifle so it is not fed from the magazine, in NRA competition the only time that case design would come into play would be in 200 or 300 RF of across the course where you are shooting from a magazine. But yes I agree as far as the match ammunition portion or even just pure support of a cartridge, Remington has always had a history of coming up with some really nice cartridges and then not supporting via ammo (260 Rem, 280 Rem) or putting them with barrels with a slow twist barrel (6mm Rem).
As far as the cartriges for the long range game it basically comes down to what you want to shoot and you learn to shoot it, in my time of shooting LR matches and running them here is what you generally see.
.30 cal
.300 Win Mag- Once THE cartridge it is becoming more rare as time goes on. You take a lot more pounding with it than you do with the others listed below and are only getting the same at best or worse ballistics for the pounding.
.308 Win- Because of palma and the serious palma shooters just shoot palma rifles.
7mm
.284 Win- You see a lot of these along with the variants
7mm RSAUM- You see some of these guys that shoot this have issues finding brass barrel life is an issue
6.5mm
6.5x284- 10-15 years ago it was the LR cartridge but being replaced by the 284 due to better barrel life and the newer 7mm bullets and the .243, less recoil. With 4350 you're talking 1100-1200 rounds, run N165 you'll get 2,500-2,600 due to powder being cooler burning. The AMU went from this to the 7RSAUM however the shooters that shot this said they preferred it over the RSAUM as it held better vertical.
260/6.5CM/6.5x47- They're out there just you don't see them a lot, usually if someone is shooting a 6.5mm it is the 6.5-284.
6mm
.243 Win- Put on the map by John Whidden a lot of the guys on the SE team (VA, Carolina, GA areas) shoot this, also where some of the 6.5x284 went to. Very light recoil and easy shooting compared to all the other cartridges. Bullets are cheaper than 6.5's and 7's and when they are ran in the 3,200-3,300fps area will shoot with its bigger brother. Like the 6.5 with 4350 barrel life stinks however if you run N160 you will get around 2,500-2,600 rounds.
6XC- Put on the map by David Tubb it works well also and is shot by people for all the same reason the .243 is.
.22cal
.223 Rem- You are starting to see more and more 223's on the line for palma matches. When properly throated for 90's they can shoot right with the 308-185Jug guns and inside the 308-155 guns.
Now as far as wanting to shoot a mile when we run/ran our longest shot matches the 308's will die out at 1300. The 243/284/6.5x284 class guns die out at around 1500. The 300 Win mags will get back to 1700 reliably farther (1800-1900) if you have a stout load and the weather is in your favor. All of the guys that have won the match the last couple of years are shooting 338LM or Norma mags and going back to 2000.
The case design of the 6.5CM doesn't have any advantage when it comes to NRA Long range or Mid-range competitions. The matches are shot slow fire and each round is loaded single into the rifle so it is not fed from the magazine, in NRA competition the only time that case design would come into play would be in 200 or 300 RF of across the course where you are shooting from a magazine. But yes I agree as far as the match ammunition portion or even just pure support of a cartridge, Remington has always had a history of coming up with some really nice cartridges and then not supporting via ammo (260 Rem, 280 Rem) or putting them with barrels with a slow twist barrel (6mm Rem).
As far as the cartriges for the long range game it basically comes down to what you want to shoot and you learn to shoot it, in my time of shooting LR matches and running them here is what you generally see.
.30 cal
.300 Win Mag- Once THE cartridge it is becoming more rare as time goes on. You take a lot more pounding with it than you do with the others listed below and are only getting the same at best or worse ballistics for the pounding.
.308 Win- Because of palma and the serious palma shooters just shoot palma rifles.
7mm
.284 Win- You see a lot of these along with the variants
7mm RSAUM- You see some of these guys that shoot this have issues finding brass barrel life is an issue
6.5mm
6.5x284- 10-15 years ago it was the LR cartridge but being replaced by the 284 due to better barrel life and the newer 7mm bullets and the .243, less recoil. With 4350 you're talking 1100-1200 rounds, run N165 you'll get 2,500-2,600 due to powder being cooler burning. The AMU went from this to the 7RSAUM however the shooters that shot this said they preferred it over the RSAUM as it held better vertical.
260/6.5CM/6.5x47- They're out there just you don't see them a lot, usually if someone is shooting a 6.5mm it is the 6.5-284.
6mm
.243 Win- Put on the map by John Whidden a lot of the guys on the SE team (VA, Carolina, GA areas) shoot this, also where some of the 6.5x284 went to. Very light recoil and easy shooting compared to all the other cartridges. Bullets are cheaper than 6.5's and 7's and when they are ran in the 3,200-3,300fps area will shoot with its bigger brother. Like the 6.5 with 4350 barrel life stinks however if you run N160 you will get around 2,500-2,600 rounds.
6XC- Put on the map by David Tubb it works well also and is shot by people for all the same reason the .243 is.
.22cal
.223 Rem- You are starting to see more and more 223's on the line for palma matches. When properly throated for 90's they can shoot right with the 308-185Jug guns and inside the 308-155 guns.
Now as far as wanting to shoot a mile when we run/ran our longest shot matches the 308's will die out at 1300. The 243/284/6.5x284 class guns die out at around 1500. The 300 Win mags will get back to 1700 reliably farther (1800-1900) if you have a stout load and the weather is in your favor. All of the guys that have won the match the last couple of years are shooting 338LM or Norma mags and going back to 2000.
avboiler11
Master
You guys don't have many BR/BRX/Dasher shooters doing mid/longrange?
Not really probably see them as much as you do the .260/6.5CM/6.5x47. They're out there I know of people that will shoot them but none of them are cartridges you see people consistently shoot. One of our BOD who is on the US F-Open team built a Dasher to use as a practice gun this past season so he has to read the wind better, but when he is shooting big matches he is on his .284.
Talking purely ballistics here for the 6's to be on par with the 6.5's and 7's they need to run in the 3200-3300fps range and why the 243 and XC's are more prevalent. That doesn't mean you can't shoot the 6's you listed its just most people don't.
EDIT: I was answering the above from a long-range standpoint. As far as mid-range goes yes you do see the 6BR or 6BRX more frequently along with the 260, 6.5CM, 6x47, 6.5x47, etc. in the mid-range matches along with the 308's and 223's.
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I'd jump just to watch!
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