I Wonder if the Officer Feeels Like a Real Man Now...

[Benny]

I'm not saying I don't agree the grocery store owner had a little douche-baggery going on, but we also don't know the history about his lot being used for what purposes in the past. Again......agree or not the lot is his to do with as he wishes.

Also, parking in another lot to run in and get a pizza is a little different than parking there to go get your drink on at the bar. Chances are had he parked there for a quick stop he would have been gone well before the hook got there.

Your logic has no place in here, FPD.

A 30 second stop to get a pizza is the EXACT same thing as using someone's private property for several hours to go tie one on at the bar.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

84 and drinking and it took all that to subdue him? way to go barney those karate lessons finally paid off andy will be proud.

Yeah, since the old man had already punched the tow truck driver three times, I guess he figured that, being 84 and all, he could get away with threatening to punch the cop too.

 

[96firephoenix]

yea... it sucks that he has a broken neck, but he kinda brought it on himself.

 

[Prometheus]

First I'd like to speak about tow truck companies in Florida... CORRUPT doesn't even begin to describe them.

Florida law is very specific on what must occur in order for a vehicle to be towed without the owners consent. First the property owner or direct agent of them (which under FLA explicitly prohibits any employee of a tow company as that agent) MUST contact the tow company and the owner (or direct agent) must be on site and sign off on the tow.

In many cases tow truck companies will go to Bob of Bob's quikie-mart and get Bob to pre sign dozens of slips. Because Bob doesn't want to come out at 1am and have to sign off on a tow. The tow truck company wants to tow at will and at a cost of $175 a dollars a tow, they make a fortune, which they may kick back to the property owner for presigning.

Anyway, having intimate knowledge of this process I am very leary of anything done in FLA when it comes to, what is almost always, illegal towing.

For those wondering if this was "excessive", listen to the 9-1-1 calls made by those witnessing the events:
Calls describe scuffle between senior and cop

Here is one video:
Revolutionary Politics::Revolutionary Politics : Police Brutality: Cop Breaks 84 Yr old's Neck For Touching Him

This 84 y/o couldn't have been too tough if the cop was able to pick him up and turn him on his head pile driving the guy.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

First I'd like to speak about tow truck companies in Florida... CORRUPT doesn't even begin to describe them.

Florida law is very specific on what must occur in order for a vehicle to be towed without the owners consent. First the property owner or direct agent of them (which under FLA explicitly prohibits any employee of a tow company as that agent) MUST contact the tow company and the owner (or direct agent) must be on site and sign off on the tow.

In many cases tow truck companies will go to Bob of Bob's quikie-mart and get Bob to pre sign dozens of slips. Because Bob doesn't want to come out at 1am and have to sign off on a tow. The tow truck company wants to tow at will and at a cost of $175 a dollars a tow, they make a fortune, which they may kick back to the property owner for presigning.

Anyway, having intimate knowledge of this process I am very leary of anything done in FLA when it comes to, what is almost always, illegal towing.

For those wondering if this was "excessive", listen to the 9-1-1 calls made by those witnessing the events:
Calls describe scuffle between senior and cop

Here is one video:
Revolutionary Politics::Revolutionary Politics : Police Brutality: Cop Breaks 84 Yr old's Neck For Touching Him

This 84 y/o couldn't have been too tough if the cop was able to pick him up and turn him on his head pile driving the guy.

Does the video show the cop doing this, or are you going by what some of the eye witnesses said?

 

[lashicoN]

Your logic has no place in here, FPD.

A 30 second stop to get a pizza is the EXACT same thing as using someone's private property for several hours to go tie one on at the bar.

Yeah Joe, it is the same thing. . You're using someone else's private property with posted signs stating not to park there unless you're giving them your business. If you park at a laundromat and go get a pizza, it is the same thing as parking at a grocery store and going into a bar. . Do these signs have time limits written on them, Joe?

 

[Benny]

Yeah Joe, it is the same thing. . You're using someone else's private property with posted signs stating not to park there unless you're giving them your business. If you park at a laundromat and go get a pizza, it is the same thing as parking at a grocery store and going into a bar. . Do these signs have time limits written on them, Joe?

Yes genius, 30 seconds is the exact same thing as several hours and you are clearly inconveniencing the private property owner the exact same way.

Factor the guy stumbling back drunk and harassing people, making the owner's business look bad and it's even MORE like a 30 second stop to grab a pizza.

 

[lashicoN]

Yes genius, 30 seconds is the exact same thing as several hours and you are clearly inconveniencing the private property owner the exact same way.

Factor the guy stumbling back drunk and harassing people, making the owner's business look bad and it's even MORE like a 30 second stop to grab a pizza.

Where are you reading that the old guy was stumbling around drunk while harassing people? I haven't found that in anything I've read yet.

I don't know how you managed to argue with my last post, but I'm not surprised. The parking signs around here do not have 30 second stipulations. I guess the signs near you do?

In any case, the one in the story didn't, it simply states "Ivanhoe Plaza patron parking only violators will be towed" which reinforces my point that it is the exact same thing as parking there for 30 seconds to run to another business to get a pizza. Your car can still get towed, which is stupid, especially after what Prometheus said. Do you understand what I'm saying now?

The time frame doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you stopped there to save a box of baby kittens. If you weren't an Ivanhoe Plaza patron, then you take the chance of your car getting towed for the stop. It doesn't matter if he went in for pizza for 30 seconds or went to a bar for 3 hours.

I can't find anywhere when, exactly, this happened, but the video says "late Saturday night" and when the news lady is back there the next night, the grocery store is closed, empty parking lot while the bar right across the street is open. I'm going to venture out and say that the store was also closed the night the man's car was towed. The tow-truck company drove by and saw a car sitting there, so they simply towed it.

This really just goes back to being a jerk to me. Who was the old man hurting by parking in an empty lot of a closed business? No one, but as Prometheus explained, the owner of the grocery store gets a little kick back from the tow-truck company, so he puts up signs and enables them to tow at will. It's a foolish, greed driven system. In the end, it was his property, but if you're that paranoid about people parking in your lot while your business is closed, perhaps you shouldn't be opening a business to the public in the middle of a town, stay in your cave. These types of situations ALWAYS lead to government intervention, because the idiot business owners can't make the decent decision for themselves, so the government eventually gets involved to put an end to stuff like this, except they always mess up too and probably just want a cut of the tow-truck kick backs.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Where are you reading that the old guy was stumbling around drunk while harassing people? I haven't found that in anything I've read yet.

I don't know how you managed to argue with my last post, but I'm not surprised. The parking signs around here do not have 30 second stipulations. I guess the signs near you do?

In any case, the one in the story [strike]didn't, it[/strike] simply states "Ivanhoe Plaza patron parking only violators will be towed"[strike] which reinforces my point that it is the exact same thing as parking there for 30 seconds to run to another business to get a pizza[/strike]. Your car can still get towed[strike], which is stupid, especially after what Prometheus said[/strike]. [strike]Do you understand what I'm saying now? [/strike]
The time frame doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you stopped there to save a box of baby kittens. If you weren't an Ivanhoe Plaza patron, then you take the chance of your car getting towed for the stop.
It doesn't matter if he went in for pizza for 30 seconds or went to a bar for 3 hours.

I can't find anywhere when, exactly, this happened, but the video says "late Saturday night" and when the news lady is back there the next night, the grocery store is closed, empty parking lot while the bar right across the street is open.[strike] I'm going to venture out and say that the store was also closed the night the man's car was towed. The tow-truck company drove by and saw a car sitting there, so they simply towed it.
[/strike]
T[strike]his really just goes back to being a jerk to me. Who was the old man hurting by parking in an empty lot of a closed business? No one, but as Prometheus explained, t[/strike]he owner of the grocery store [strike]gets a little kick back from the tow-truck company, so he [/strike]puts up signs and enables them to tow[strike] at will[/strike]. [strike]It's a foolish, greed driven system. [/strike]In the end, it was his property[strike], but if you're that paranoid about people parking in your lot while your business is closed, perhaps you shouldn't be opening a business to the public in the middle of a town, stay in your cave[/strike]. These types of situations ALWAYS lead to government intervention[strike], because the idiot business owners can't make the decent decision for themselves, so the government eventually gets involved to put an end to stuff like this, except they always mess up too and probably just want a cut of the tow-truck kick backs[/strike].

FIFY

 

[lashicoN]

FIFY

Thanks for your input. You should release your edited version of the Declaration of Independence, with all the opinions taken out of that as well. I'm sure it would be an interesting read...

 

[hornadylnl]

You ever notice that the seniors who complain about younger people not respecting their elders are usually the most disrespectful people themselves?

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Thanks for your input. You should release your edited version of the Declaration of Independence, with all the opinions taken out of that as well. I'm sure it would be an interesting read...

Big difference between examples, opinions and unfounded accusations. I'm going to venture out to say ... The owner was getting a kick back ... What part of any of that was factual, truthful, or helpful? The founders had all three on their side when they wrote the DoI.

 

[lashicoN]

Big difference between examples, opinions and unfounded accusations. I'm going to venture out to say ... The owner was getting a kick back ... What part of any of that was factual, truthful, or helpful? The founders had all three on their side when they wrote the DoI.

Because it explains why he got his car towed, which is what caused this entire mess. $

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Because it explains why he got his car towed, which is what caused this entire mess. $

No, what caused the mess was him trying to strike an LEO. How he found himself to be in those conditions is irrelevent.

I feel bad for the outcome (broken neck) but he made a decision that led to it. He is not a victim and the grocery owner, tow truck driver, LEO, bar, pizza place, his parents, the news, and space aliens did not cause his broken neck. He alone did.

I hope for his recovery with all my soul. Stupid actions are not without consequences.

 

[hornadylnl]

I just don't think it's good business for the grocery store owner to have vehicles towed. If he had my car towed for parking there after his store is closed, I certainly wouldn't do business with him in the future. Sounds like a good way to run off customers. It's his right to have the vehicles towed but he can accept the loss of business as well.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I just don't think it's good business for the grocery store owner to have vehicles towed. If he had my car towed for parking there after his store is closed, I certainly wouldn't do business with him in the future. Sounds like a good way to run off customers. It's his right to have the vehicles towed but he can accept the loss of business as well.

Absolutely correct, but irrelevant to the situation that caused the guy's neck to get broken.

 

[lashicoN]

No, what caused the mess was him trying to strike an LEO. How he found himself to be in those conditions is irrelevent.

I feel bad for the outcome (broken neck) but he made a decision that led to it. He is not a victim and the grocery owner, tow truck driver, LEO, bar, pizza place, his parents, the news, and space aliens did not cause his broken neck. He alone did.

I hope for his recovery with all my soul. Stupid actions are not without consequences.

Absolutely correct, but irrelevant to the situation that caused the guy's neck to get broken.

Are you guys serious? His vehicle getting towed IS what lead to his neck getting broken though. I can't believe I even have to make this argument. Here is a quick test - If you remove the vehicle getting towed from this equation, does he still throw a fit and get his neck broken?

This is Cause and Effect, simple. Cause: He parked in a no parking area and his car was towed. Effect: He got mad after seeing his car getting towed, ran outside, had the cops called on him, threatened the cop, got his neck broken. Him trying to strike the LEO was a stupid thing to do, I'm not trying to say that's OK or it was a product of his environment, so it was acceptable, but to deny that it was, in fact, a product of the environment is just foolish. That's like saying that when a guy shoots at you and you return fire in self-defense and kill him means that you always planned to kill him. The fact that he fired at your first is irrelevant. When in reality, that is what caused the entire situation. I don't know how else to put it. Perhaps we simply disagree on cause and effect here.

I'm not saying the tow-truck company or the grocery store is directly to blame for his neck getting broken, I'm guessing that was simply age, but they certainly played their roles in escalating a harmless situation. He was parked in an empty parking lot of a closed grocery store. He was having a drink across the street. This wasn't a group of kids playing dice and drinking 40s out in the parking lot making a bunch of noise.

I just don't think it's good business for the grocery store owner to have vehicles towed. If he had my car towed for parking there after his store is closed, I certainly wouldn't do business with him in the future. Sounds like a good way to run off customers. It's his right to have the vehicles towed but he can accept the loss of business as well.

Me too.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Are you guys serious? His vehicle getting towed IS what lead to his neck getting broken though. I can't believe I even have to make this argument. Here is a quick test - If you remove the vehicle getting towed from this equation, does he still throw a fit and get his neck broken?

This is Cause and Effect, simple. Cause: He parked in a no parking area and his car was towed. Effect: He got mad after seeing his car getting towed, ran outside, had the cops called on him, threatened the cop, got his neck broken. Him trying to strike the LEO was a stupid thing to do, I'm not trying to say that's OK or it was a product of his environment, so it was acceptable, but to deny that it was, in fact, a product of the environment is just foolish. That's like saying that when a guy shoots at you and you return fire in self-defense and kill him means that you always planned to kill him. The fact that he fired at your first is irrelevant. When in reality, that is what caused the entire situation. I don't know how else to put it. Perhaps we simply disagree on cause and effect here.

I'm not saying the tow-truck company or the grocery store is directly to blame for his neck getting broken, I'm guessing that was simply age, but they certainly played their roles in escalating a harmless situation. He was parked in an empty parking lot of a closed grocery store. He was having a drink across the street. This wasn't a group of kids playing dice and drinking 40s out in the parking lot making a bunch of noise.



Me too.

I understand your reasoning and I find it faulty. Your reasoning is like saying that the cause of a helicopter accident is because the pilot took off. The accident wouldn't have occurred if the pilot hadn't flown that flight, but that wasn't the cause of the accident.

There were several decision points in this incident which could have resulted in no broken neck to the old man:

He could have looked at the No Parking sign, realized he was toast, and called a cab.

He could have kept the argument with the tow truck driver verbal and not hit him three times.

He could have explained to the cop that he was angry over having his car towed instead of "touching" him.

He could have not cocked his fist and said he wasn't leaving until he'd punched out that cop.

Had he made other decisions than the ones he made, he likely wouldn't have gotten thrown to the pavement and broken his neck.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Are you guys serious? His vehicle getting towed IS what lead to his neck getting broken though. I can't believe I even have to make this argument. Here is a quick test - If you remove the vehicle getting towed from this equation, does he still throw a fit and get his neck broken?

This is Cause and Effect, simple. Cause: He parked in a no parking area and his car was towed. Effect: He got mad after seeing his car getting towed, ran outside, had the cops called on him, threatened the cop, got his neck broken. Him trying to strike the LEO was a stupid thing to do, I'm not trying to say that's OK or it was a product of his environment, so it was acceptable, but to deny that it was, in fact, a product of the environment is just foolish. That's like saying that when a guy shoots at you and you return fire in self-defense and kill him means that you always planned to kill him. The fact that he fired at your first is irrelevant. When in reality, that is what caused the entire situation. I don't know how else to put it. Perhaps we simply disagree on cause and effect here.

I'm not saying the tow-truck company or the grocery store is directly to blame for his neck getting broken, I'm guessing that was simply age, but they certainly played their roles in escalating a harmless situation. He was parked in an empty parking lot of a closed grocery store. He was having a drink across the street. This wasn't a group of kids playing dice and drinking 40s out in the parking lot making a bunch of noise.



Me too.

Is this really the 9/11 conspiracy thread with a different twist? I'll channel dross.

What is the outcome of parking somewhere you aren't supposed to and go somewhere you're not supposed to after? You get your car towed.

What is the outcome if you try to hit an LEO? You get slammed to the ground really hard and can, oh, get your neck broke.

Notice there is no causation or correlation between these two events. They are independent events.

 

[Bendrx]

I just don't think it's good business for the grocery store owner to have vehicles towed.

Either way, if he doesn't tow then there is no way his customers can even park to shop. Did you see the size of that lot? Very small.

I stand by my first post in this thread, but after reading that he punched the tow driver 3 times I feel less sorry for the outcome of his chosen actions. It's not my fault you can't thow a punch. If you attack me, I'm not going to let it slide just because you can't thow a decent punch. IF the officer did infact piledrive the old man like one of the witnesses claims then the officer should get in some poo (i used the poo smilie but it doesn't show). It should have no bearing however, on the outcome of whatever actions are taken against the old man, as those happened PRIOR to any misconduct by police.

This isn't the case, but if the old mans actions were a response to police misconduct then I would say they should be dropped and a public apology given, then the officer should loose any immunity from civil suits or even criminal investigations.

As for the towing in FL. I'll take your word for it them being a racket but if a private property own gave a company blanket rights to police thier lot I see no problem with that. I would assume this is not the case as they were towing a car that was parked without the lot owners permission, besides, how else would they have know that his car wasn't supposed to be there if they weren't called. I guess they could be parked and waiting across the street, but again, if the lot owner okayed it, then that is between the lot owner and the parking violator.