In defense of the 22lr for EDC

[EricG]

1. The attacker has a lot to say about shot placement. For example, can the round penetrate the outstretched forearms of someone aiming at you? Bone, tendons, clothing, etc.

2. What was the context of these recorded "stops"? Did they "stop" immediately or 30 minutes later at a local ER?

The ultimate goal is STOPPING the threat, which can only be guaranteed by incapacitation(CNS damage or rapid BP loss)

 

[ditcherman]

Well, since the PMR30 was mentioned, I'll just throw out there that I wouldn't hesitate to trust my FN 5.7 in a self defense situation. It's just not very easy to conceal. Some people write it off as a 22mag, but I've seen what it can do to the inside of a coyote's skull.

 

[churchmouse]

tlandon, is that you?

 

[Reller39]

Have tried similar guns walther ppq and there pk380 feel similar to Sri 22.

 

[Dead Duck]

.22 for EDC - Not me.

As a bulletproof vest against your .22, I'll just wear a Levi or leather jacket. Hell anything heavy will probably do. Layers. They also repel .25s and .380s well enough. Placement and distance is everything. They've also been known to skip of of skulls if you're not dead on target. They really don't do the damage to meat and bone that I would like to accomplish with say.... anything else.

Recoil?
It can be a problem with .45s and .40s. If they're too snappy use a 9mm but don't go down from there. Really.

Eardrums?
Ya it happens. They say in a firefight your adrenaline will help block out damaging noise. I don't know about that one.
An open area is one thing and I've had different results. Confined space can suck. I've had 12ga shotgun blasts go off next to my head in a small room and a car. As well as .45, 9mm and 5.56. The 12ga hurt more just because of the displacement. Mixed results also. Half the times I was fine after a day the rest took longer but nothing permanent. Eyebrows grow back eventually.
Yet I know a guy that stood too close to a trains whistle and blew out his eardrum. So there's that.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Well, since the PMR30 was mentioned, I'll just throw out there that I wouldn't hesitate to trust my FN 5.7 in a self defense situation. It's just not very easy to conceal. Some people write it off as a 22mag, but I've seen what it can do to the inside of a coyote's skull.

I've seen a few real world 5.7 shootings. They'll penetrate a skull. I'm not sure if they'll break a femur, never saw a leg shot with one.

 

[Brad69]

Not being a smart a#&$ for once but where did the idea that one shot from a handgun would damage hearing?

.22 LR for EDC yep see it all the time !

For me .38 spc or 9mm nothing less no reason for it micro 9’s are the same size as the .380 I personally would only use a micro 9 as a BUG.
If you cannot shoot a defensive pistol course with it I wouldn’t carry it as a primary, but each to there own.
I hope a hyped up 350 pound monster doesn’t decide he wants to “touch” you!

 

[Mark 1911]

Chiming in late as usual, but my thought is that if you are going to carry, you are going to make the commitment to learn as much as you can related to the subject. You are going to learn as much as you can about the law, as much as you can about defensive strategies, as much as you can about gear, as much as you can about interactions with law enforcement, with everyday individuals, every aspect about carrying and self-defense. Our lives may someday depend on it. You may even invest some bucks in taking some self-defense classes or other firearms related classes, which are even mandatory in some states. As in any other thing in life, we are hopefully always learning something and getting better and more knowledgeable about what we do. If you are going to go to effort it takes to make that commitment, make the financial investment, make the mental investment, or even just make the effort of strapping on a holster and carrying the additional weight of a firearm on your body, why would you start by giving yourself the least ability of all selections available to stop a potential threat?

 

[rebase]

Others have said it best: "I would continue to practice with your 9mm, and if and when you feel more comfortable with it, maybe switch over."

I would only consider using 22lr for self defense for a barricaded home defense scenario if a 5.56 were not available and situations would be similar to training. But for a carry piece, rimfire is just too unreliable for my taste. I've never once had a FTF or FTE for my carry piece. Even when not cleaning for over 1k rounds. No matter the 22 launcher, it seems dust or carbon buildup always induces massive amounts of failures for me. I'm not willing to be my life on that.

Also something to keep in mind from the ASP channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsE_m2z1NrvF2ImeNWh84mw. A huge factor in stopping aggressors is the FIBS/FIBSA factor. Meaning if you can get the first shot off, you have a better chance of coming out alive. I would worry about a 22lr going off under sub-optimal conditions.

Keep on training brother!

 

[hoosierfishing]

I did some informal ballistic testing using CCI Mini Mags round nose. One with the Beretta M9 22 and other with 10/22. The targe was two 2 by 4s duck taped together. Every round from the rifle went through both and caused a nasty hole. Out of the pistol, 1 out of every 3 went through both boards. But 90% of them made it through the first board and most of the second board ending with a bulge out the back. All in all I was impressed and definitely wouldn’t want to get shot with one from a high velocity 22lr

 

[NHT3]

I've never once had a FTF or FTE for my carry piece. Even when not cleaning for over 1k rounds.

If you haven't had a failure you haven't trained enough. It's not a matter of "if" only "when but you WILL have a failure sooner or later so train and prepare for it.
I don't believe I've had a failure related to my pistol but have had a number of them that were magazine or ammo related.

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright[/FONT]

 

[Usmccookie]

I did some informal ballistic testing using CCI Mini Mags round nose. One with the Beretta M9 22 and other with 10/22. The targe was two 2 by 4s duck taped together. Every round from the rifle went through both and caused a nasty hole. Out of the pistol, 1 out of every 3 went through both boards. But 90% of them made it through the first board and most of the second board ending with a bulge out the back. All in all I was impressed and definitely wouldn’t want to get shot with one from a high velocity 22lr

Make me think of the tornado straw. During a tornado, a piece of straw will go through 2x4's. I wouldn't want to get hit by that either.

 

[Mongo59]

Flame throwers don't have much penetration either...

 

[churchmouse]

Flame throwers don't have much penetration either...

When in doubt use fire. It is the only way to be sure.

 

[Mongo59]

When the dead start walking the living start cooking...

 

[Dean C.]

[video=youtube_share;JiMNASuw69U]https://youtu.be/JiMNASuw69U[/video]

First 10 minutes and last 7 minutes are where the information is, Paul Harrel (one of my favorite YouTube shooters) just did an in depth video about the reliability of 22LR ammunition and even goes into the manufacturing process behind the cartridge and how that inherently leads to “dud” rounds. Even CCI Mini-Mags had one dud in the lot (Paul shot 1,500 Mini-Mags). Honestly after watching this video and my prior knowledge of 22 Long Rifle at least to me there is no defense for using a 22 Long Rifle (or any rimfire) in a serious self defense firearm, get something center fire!

 

[Bigtanker]

Lucky Gunner did a 22 reliability test a while back. Interesting results.

[video=youtube_share;X9t8Gkf4UeM]http://youtu.be/X9t8Gkf4UeM[/video]

I still wouldn't use it for self defense if I had other options.

 

[1mil-high]

While most every part of the OP has been discussed, I did not see anything regarding the claimed round count even though training was mentioned (wisely) time and time again in the follow up posts.

The OP say he has shot less than 1000 rounds through each centerfire handgun. Here lies the problem in conjunction with the training. Most people on here and others who are serious about personal defense would consider 500 rounds a reliability check or test of a firearm before deciding if it would be worth carrying. 500 rounds is nothing when it comes to being adequately trained to perform under stress especially after seeing 90% of people "practice" on the range.

There are too many variables in a gun fight to train for them all, but there is also a lot more than can be done to prepare than just punching paper on a static range doing casual reloads and shooting for 2" groups at 15 yards. I am not saying that this is the OP, but based on my observations at most ranges it is the overwhelming majority.

To the OP, just because you feel that you are becoming competent with the SR22 please don't focus your training using that firearm. Once you make sure that your form is conducive to managing the recoil of a 9mm handgun work with it. Work with larger calibers and recoil management. Sign up for at least one training course that is taught by a reputable trainer.

This goes deeper than internet research and caliber choice. The caliber choice will correct itself once proper training, round count, and education is addressed.

 

[RBeau1954]

Update:
I have read each and every post on this thread and take in everything I can to learn. I do appreciate all the responses and even in my 60's I still love to learn new things and read a lot.

What I have done is buy several different kinds of defensive loads from the 50 gr liberty on up to 124 gr loads from several different companies. I will continue to shoot my 9mm but still love my 22. I am sure as time goes on I will feel more and more comfortable with the 9mm. I have a friend that belongs to an outdoor club and will do more shooting outdoors and maybe even take some classes.

Thanks for all the replies and recommendations

 

[CPT Nervous]

That sounds like a good plan!