In defense of the 22lr for EDC

[allthumbs]

I may take some heat for this but when I started to CC , I started with a S&W 63 3" 8 shot 22, I had 3 choices a S&W 642 (couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it at 1st) a S&W SDVE 40 ( I shot it good , but a lot of FTF with that gun) and the 22. I knew at some point as I learned more I would carry something better, I just really wanted to get used to carrying everyday with something I knew I could shoot with. That only lasted a couple months, after learning more about guns and buying better ones I now carry either a 38+p or my 9mm. I know I would never carry a semi automatic 22 unless I knew I could throw it hard enough to knock someone out LOL.

 

[JettaKnight]

Anyone else suffering from inflamed OCD after reading "22" and "22 LR"?

 

[hoosierfishing]

Make me think of the tornado straw. During a tornado, a piece of straw will go through 2x4's. I wouldn't want to get hit by that either.

Right, and I'd imagine a few pieces of straw into your chest from a tornado would put you down (from the right gun/ammo set up). I'm not advocating someone to pick a 22lr if they can handle something bigger, but the notion that 22lr is like playing patty cake with a threat just blows my mind.

 

[Ziggidy]

I would believe that any defensive means one can handle is the best for the situation. If all you can handle is a 22, then so be it - let it be the best 22 you can find and manage. If I cannot manage it, it becomes a detriment to me and those around me.

With that being said, if all I could handle is a semi in a 22, which ones seem to be the best ones to start looking at?

 

[hoosierfishing]

I would believe that any defensive means one can handle is the best for the situation. If all you can handle is a 22, then so be it - let it be the best 22 you can find and manage. If I cannot manage it, it becomes a detriment to me and those around me.

With that being said, if all I could handle is a semi in a 22, which ones seem to be the best ones to start looking at?

Beretta M9 22LR with CCI Mini Mags Round Nose

 

[1nderbeard]

If you've already crossed the '22lr is ok for SD' bridge I'm not certain I agree with the logic that it will only work for SD in a revolver and not a semi auto.

I understand the reliability issues some cite. I've never experienced any issues with the 22lr SA pistol I shoot (S&P 22 Compact, w and w/out suppressor). No misfires, no FTE, nothing. I typically shoot only "good" 22lr ammo (CCI or Fed). I'm typically not shooting 20 year old ammo I've hoarded either.

But even at the risk of reliability concerns, you're limited to 6-8 shots in a revolver. In a SA pistol even if you had to clear a jam, and get rid of an entire mag you'd still have 10 shots in the one remaining mag.

Having said all that, I don't carry a 22lr for self defense. But I'm not always packing a .40 either. I will likely carry the ruger LCP 380 in a pocket holster for the summer.

 

[Hohn]

I did some informal ballistic testing using CCI Mini Mags round nose. One with the Beretta M9 22 and other with 10/22. The targe was two 2 by 4s duck taped together. Every round from the rifle went through both and caused a nasty hole. Out of the pistol, 1 out of every 3 went through both boards. But 90% of them made it through the first board and most of the second board ending with a bulge out the back. All in all I was impressed and definitely wouldn’t want to get shot with one from a high velocity 22lr

I've similarly indulged some curiosity in this regard. Even CCI Quiets (a LV round for sure) will go clean through 3/4" oak hardwood plywood. And nearly through a 2nd layer of it.

I'm certain that .22 LR has enough punch to get through a skull if the angle of incidence is close enough to dead-straight on. If there is some angle, the .22LR will likely be deflected and fail to penetrate. Lots of cases out there of bullets failing to penetrate the skull but rather riding the surface under the skin and exiting somewhere else without ever having penetrated bone.

If a bullet has sufficient mass and/or velocity, it become relatively less sensitive to angle of incidence. The odds of a "graze" instead of "penetration" go down as you step up in energy. But they aren't zero. (talk to a vet about being grazed by 7.62x39 or even 7.62x54-- it happened. Hurt like heck but they lived to tell the tale).

The flip side, of course, is that while .22LR requires much better shot placement, it also allows for such because the recoil is so mild that any shooter can shoot .22LR as fast and as accurately as they're capable of shooting anything else.

 

[Coach]

The lack of reliability for .22 ammo should be enough reason to not use it for EDC. A dud round in your semi auto and it is a wrestling match.

 

[hoosierfishing]

I've similarly indulged some curiosity in this regard. Even CCI Quiets (a LV round for sure) will go clean through 3/4" oak hardwood plywood. And nearly through a 2nd layer of it.

I'm certain that .22 LR has enough punch to get through a skull if the angle of incidence is close enough to dead-straight on. If there is some angle, the .22LR will likely be deflected and fail to penetrate. Lots of cases out there of bullets failing to penetrate the skull but rather riding the surface under the skin and exiting somewhere else without ever having penetrated bone.

If a bullet has sufficient mass and/or velocity, it become relatively less sensitive to angle of incidence. The odds of a "graze" instead of "penetration" go down as you step up in energy. But they aren't zero. (talk to a vet about being grazed by 7.62x39 or even 7.62x54-- it happened. Hurt like heck but they lived to tell the tale).

The flip side, of course, is that while .22LR requires much better shot placement, it also allows for such because the recoil is so mild that any shooter can shoot .22LR as fast and as accurately as they're capable of shooting anything else.

Agree %100. When Im out of town for a few days I load up my Beretta M9 22 with Mini Mags for my wife. She isn't accurate enough with my guns but can make solid hits all day, every day with my Beretta.

 

[Beowulf]

The lack of reliability for .22 ammo should be enough reason to not use it for EDC. A dud round in your semi auto and it is a wrestling match.

Definitely valid. But this can be mitigated by purchasing a higher quality (and higher velocity) .22 LR round. I've had plenty of problems with crap rounds like Rem Golden Bullet and Federal Automatch. But I can honestly say that I've never had a single failure in any .22 LR platform using a CCI Stinger.

Frankly, I would think you'd use the same logic for any defensive ammo use. You certainly wouldn't use Winchester Whitebox 115gr 9mm or, hell, Tula 115gr 9mm, as your go-to for defensive ammo. So why wouldn't you do the same for .22 LR?

 

[1nderbeard]

Definitely valid. But this can be mitigated by purchasing a higher quality (and higher velocity) .22 LR round. I've had plenty of problems with crap rounds like Rem Golden Bullet and Federal Automatch. But I can honestly say that I've never had a single failure in any .22 LR platform using a CCI Stinger.

Frankly, I would think you'd use the same logic for any defensive ammo use. You certainly wouldn't use Winchester Whitebox 115gr 9mm or, hell, Tula 115gr 9mm, as your go-to for defensive ammo. So why wouldn't you do the same for .22 LR?

Exactly what I was saying above. I've never had a malfunction with CCI, and only a few with Fed bulk boxes. Never had a jam so bad I had to disassemble the rifle/pistol.

I have seen plenty of crappy ammo fail. Remington thunderbolts (?) recently failed to eject about 75% of the time in a Ruger 22 SA pistol. My buddy switched to my my fiochi subsonic loads, and shocker, no issues whatsoever.

Just buy good ammo and you will be fine.

 

[way2good4u95]

Personally, I carry bigger than a .22lr for self defense. However, a .22lr on your person is better than a 9mm or .45acp at home. I have a Walther p22 that I have put well over 2000 rounds through with not a single malfunction and with no cleaning. I would trust carrying it and I trust it would stop a threat with good shot placement and fast follow-up shots.

 

[Coach]

Definitely valid. But this can be mitigated by purchasing a higher quality (and higher velocity) .22 LR round. I've had plenty of problems with crap rounds like Rem Golden Bullet and Federal Automatch. But I can honestly say that I've never had a single failure in any .22 LR platform using a CCI Stinger.

Frankly, I would think you'd use the same logic for any defensive ammo use. You certainly wouldn't use Winchester Whitebox 115gr 9mm or, hell, Tula 115gr 9mm, as your go-to for defensive ammo. So why wouldn't you do the same for .22 LR?

In my experience the person looking to use the 22 is not going to spring for good ammo.

I have had dud with every kind of 22 round ever run through our guns. CCI included. I have stood behind a lot of beginner classes where .22 are used. There are a lot of dud rounds in all types of ammo. Just my experience standing behind a couple thousand shooters.
Self defense rounds of all calibers should be picked carefully and tested in any gun. This is a semi free country and folks are certainly able to pick the caliber and the rounds they want. I will not criticize them for making their own decision. But they should be wary of telling folks the 22 is a good way to go.

However, endorsing that decision is totally different. When people tell folks that do not have much knowledge or experience that 22 is acceptable. I find that to be less than responsible. Many newbies shoot the 22 and decide that is what they want because it is easy to shoot compared to the snub nose revolver someone told them they needed because they could not rack the slide.

 

[sht4brnz]

Has anyone given this round a chance?
I think i would put it in contention for consideration with the likes of a 5.7 or 22wmr. Also offers the ability to convert on the same platform.
22TCM review

 

[allthumbs]

In my experience the person looking to use the 22 is not going to spring for good ammo.

I have had dud with every kind of 22 round ever run through our guns. CCI included. I have stood behind a lot of beginner classes where .22 are used. There are a lot of dud rounds in all types of ammo. Just my experience standing behind a couple thousand shooters.
Self defense rounds of all calibers should be picked carefully and tested in any gun. This is a semi free country and folks are certainly able to pick the caliber and the rounds they want. I will not criticize them for making their own decision. But they should be wary of telling folks the 22 is a good way to go.

However, endorsing that decision is totally different. When people tell folks that do not have much knowledge or experience that 22 is acceptable. I find that to be less than responsible. Many newbies shoot the 22 and decide that is what they want because it is easy to shoot compared to the snub nose revolver someone told them they needed because they could not rack the slide.

^^^^^^^this^^^^^ I have come across more than a few CCI stingers that would not fire in a revolver, 1 I believe had no primer and the others did shoot the 2nd pull. Thunder Bolt's forget about it, real junk and unreliable. Carry what you're comfortable with, just stating my own preferences.

 

[Coach]

I grew up on a farm. I have seen dozens of 2000 pound steers dropped with a single shot of .22 to the head. If the shot placement is just right. I have also seen a dozen people put to flight because the kill shot missed the brain. The soft shooting very accurate .22 did not place place the follow up shots very well and things were sporty for some time. Now if you attacker will give you a good shot of the tear duct and you don't miss then it will all be fine. It would take a real steady hand for that kind of shooting. If the hand is that steady then why not something larger?

 

[1nderbeard]

^^^^^^^this^^^^^ I have come across more than a few CCI stingers that would not fire in a revolver, 1 I believe had no primer and the others did shoot the 2nd pull. Thunder Bolt's forget about it, real junk and unreliable. Carry what you're comfortable with, just stating my own preferences.

I'm not saying I'd use, or even recommend using, a 22lr for an every day carry. I'm just saying if you're already to the point where you think a short barreled pocket revolver is OK for SD, you should just go ahead and use a SA 22lr. You'd get higher capacity by 2-3 times.

 

[BrettonJudy7]

Personally, I carry bigger than a .22lr for self defense. However, a .22lr on your person is better than a 9mm or .45acp at home. I have a Walther p22 that I have put well over 2000 rounds through with not a single malfunction and with no cleaning. I would trust carrying it and I trust it would stop a threat with good shot placement and fast follow-up shots.

This is actually very impressive. In fact I'm actually astonished that you could run a Walther p22 reliably for 2,000 rounds with zero malfs and zero cleaning. Not saying it isn't possible, just thoroughly surprised.

I've owned my P22 for around 2 years now, and it will only shoot high velocity rounds reliably (CCI minimags etc.) Putting any round lower than 900 fps will render a malfunction almost everytime, and it must be cleaned regularly to function well. I love the gun, I shoot it constantly. It is reliable when I'm shooting minimags and the gun is clean, but it demands to be run wet. These are my experiences, and it is similar to the things I've heard from others as well. doddg care to elaborate on your findings with the P22 or .22lr as a whole in a semi auto handgun?

 

[JollyMon]

This is actually very impressive. In fact I'm actually astonished that you could run a Walther p22 reliably for 2,000 rounds with zero malfs and zero cleaning. Not saying it isn't possible, just thoroughly surprised.

I've owned my P22 for around 2 years now, and it will only shoot high velocity rounds reliably (CCI minimags etc.) Putting any round lower than 900 fps will render a malfunction almost everytime, and it must be cleaned regularly to function well. I love the gun, I shoot it constantly. It is reliable when I'm shooting minimags and the gun is clean, but it demands to be run wet. These are my experiences, and it is similar to the things I've heard from others as well. doddg care to elaborate on your findings with the P22 or .22lr as a whole in a semi auto handgun?

for the most part my p22 has been fairly reliable. I can normally shoot bulk blue box with a malfunction happening rarely .... not often enough to stop buying it. I don’t clean it often because it’s a pain.

this is not an endorsement of 22lr carry, but just an observation of my walther. I stopped shooting it because the front site fell off and I haven’t gotten around to fixing it

 

[way2good4u95]

This is actually very impressive. In fact I'm actually astonished that you could run a Walther p22 reliably for 2,000 rounds with zero malfs and zero cleaning. Not saying it isn't possible, just thoroughly surprised.

I've owned my P22 for around 2 years now, and it will only shoot high velocity rounds reliably (CCI minimags etc.) Putting any round lower than 900 fps will render a malfunction almost everytime, and it must be cleaned regularly to function well. I love the gun, I shoot it constantly. It is reliable when I'm shooting minimags and the gun is clean, but it demands to be run wet. These are my experiences, and it is similar to the things I've heard from others as well. doddg care to elaborate on your findings with the P22 or .22lr as a whole in a semi auto handgun?

I bought my p22 secondhand so maybe it was already broke in. I don't know the date of manufacture either. I did an initial cleaning when I got the gun and that's it. I've ran a CCI Troy Landry edition brick (I think like 300 rounds or something like that), a couple 555 round bricks of Winchester hollowpoints, and a brick of Remington Thunderbolts. Working on another brick of Winchester hollowpoints. All of those have an advertised velocity over 1200 at the muzzle so maybe that's why I have had the experience I have had. I've never owned or shot a different .22 semi auto handgun so I cannot give my experience on that. I have shot an old HR .22 revolver in .22lr and it had a lot of misfires with remington thunderbolt (misfired 1/16 of the time). I've also used to own an ATI or GSG STG-44 in .22. I've had only a handful of failures in that but shot less than 500 through it.