Indiana DNR - Why trees are being cut in Yellowwood Forest

[jake 2000]

Folks....we have raised a couple of generations of people who feel the need to be offended and make a statement. A lot of those people are focusing on this. With little or no info. Same with those that carry signs anywhere else.

sorry my bad I was way off on my dates of when they were reintroduced (1930's) but the moral of the story all the same like I said I'm all for some responsible tree harvesting clear cutting a area is not responsible and from what I read about the grouse they don't need it clear cut just the canopy knocked down to let some undergrowth get thick which is good good for deer, turkey and many other animals also the grouse population has declined by 95% since the 80's because of deforestation ( mostly to build vinyl villages) and over hunting some people do get a little over protective of the forest but i think there just scared because of the mistakes of our great grandfathers if everyone could stop the name calling and try to talk to each other with respect and educate each other we can fix these issues with nature and Society

 

[Sawmiller]

Clear cuts are a important tool in forestry
Just like any tool they can be used right or wrong
over the years l have walked, bid on and bought a lot of state and private timber sales
most of the clear cuts that I have seen target a specific area in the woods, not the entire woods Reasons for a clear cut may be to regenerate oak instead of a lesser specie tree, clean up areas that were high graded ( all valuable species cut leaving only trash trees )
or areas damaged from past uses. I have seen the state and feds clear cut large areas of pine, most of these pine areas are nonnative planted pines from years past to stop erosion. Some were planted to try to tree farm for the paper mills like they do in the south.
i have seen private sales clear cut, where the land owner is just interested in the most money they can get. This happens a lot when a younger generation inherits a piece of ground.
My experience with state sales are that they are very conservative on what they cut. A lot of the states timbersales are improvement cuts. Cutting damaged undesirable tress to promote better higher quality trees
in the past I have read a lot of negative remarks about loggers
i have seen good and bad loggers /foresters/landowners
people are people doesn’t matter what hat they wear
if you are thinking of having a timber sale Educate yourself
I advise all trees to be cut to be marked, you need to walk the woods after the trees are marked but BEFORE you sign the contract. I suggest marking all the damage/low value trees first, then look at the good trees
good forestry is a long term commitment

sawmiller

 

[churchmouse]

sorry my bad I was way off on my dates of when they were reintroduced (1930's) but the moral of the story all the same like I said I'm all for some responsible tree harvesting clear cutting a area is not responsible and from what I read about the grouse they don't need it clear cut just the canopy knocked down to let some undergrowth get thick which is good good for deer, turkey and many other animals also the grouse population has declined by 95% since the 80's because of deforestation ( mostly to build vinyl villages) and over hunting some people do get a little over protective of the forest but i think there just scared because of the mistakes of our great grandfathers if everyone could stop the name calling and try to talk to each other with respect and educate each other we can fix these issues with nature and Society

My post was not aimed towards you but the current crop of protesters we are inundated with.

 

[yetti462]

Clear cuts are a important tool in forestry
Just like any tool they can be used right or wrong
over the years l have walked, bid on and bought a lot of state and private timber sales
most of the clear cuts that I have seen target a specific area in the woods, not the entire woods Reasons for a clear cut may be to regenerate oak instead of a lesser specie tree, clean up areas that were high graded ( all valuable species cut leaving only trash trees )
or areas damaged from past uses. I have seen the state and feds clear cut large areas of pine, most of these pine areas are nonnative planted pines from years past to stop erosion. Some were planted to try to tree farm for the paper mills like they do in the south.
i have seen private sales clear cut, where the land owner is just interested in the most money they can get. This happens a lot when a younger generation inherits a piece of ground.
My experience with state sales are that they are very conservative on what they cut. A lot of the states timbersales are improvement cuts. Cutting damaged undesirable tress to promote better higher quality trees
in the past I have read a lot of negative remarks about loggers
i have seen good and bad loggers /foresters/landowners
people are people doesn’t matter what hat they wear
if you are thinking of having a timber sale Educate yourself
I advise all trees to be cut to be marked, you need to walk the woods after the trees are marked but BEFORE you sign the contract. I suggest marking all the damage/low value trees first, then look at the good trees
good forestry is a long term commitment

sawmiller

Well said sawmiller.

 

[Flinttim]

We finally admitted to ourselves that we were not really capable, both in knowledge and free time, to run our woods. We then signed on with a forest management company.Yes, it's about $1500 a year but just the first log harvest which was a "cleanup" harvest netted way more than we would have imagined. And yes the woods looked like crap after they logged it but in 7 short years the tops are all but gone and the under story has blossomed including wildlife friendly plants. So anyway, I don't like the look of clear cutting but do understand how and why it works.

 

[Yeah]

It is always the people who own the fewest trees most upset when some are taken down.

 

[abraham743]

Hoosier National needs managed as well. I don’t understand why Hoosier National is left seemingly unmanaged but when hunting in Colorado the National forests were well managed with clear cuts. Clear cuts that attracted wildlife. Years ago I would hunt Hoosier National in brown county and have grouse walk by tree stand regularly and see a lot of deer, the last few years have been 0 grouse and very few deer. We not only need our forest managed but also our deer these high anterless limits, liberal firearms seasons and couple of years of disease appears to have decimated the herd

 

[tenring]

And a certain percentage of that money goes back to the county that the trees were harvested in in-lieu of property tax never paid.

 

[snapping turtle]

[video=youtube_share;JnC88xBPkkc]https://youtu.be/JnC88xBPkkc[/video]

 

[seedubs1]

A lot of people are on edge after the “selective” harvest in Morgan Monroe. What they did there to some great old growth is disgusting, and I won’t live long enough to see it grow back to it’s former greatness.

Personally, I’m against anyone touching any of the forests around here, especially after the mis-management in MMSF.

If they’re really just removing some ash killed by the ash borer and clearing some dead for more growth to take place, great.....but I don’t trust that that’s what’s actually going to happen.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

The one thing about management of a forest is that it means different things to different people. I'm all for utilizing our (emphasize the word "our") forests for a variety of purposes.

But, I also endorse the idea of keeping a bit of the oldest growth areas untouched. If for no other reason than to allow our grandchildren's grandchildren the pleasure of bull-dozing something pristine and ancient. Why should we have all the fun?

 

[seedubs1]

Agreed. We as humans seem to always think we need to manage and make things better. Some forest area should be left alone. We don’t need to meddle in everything. Forests were there before us, and they’ll be there after us. To think that we have to manage the wild is pretty narcissistic and inane IMHO.

The one thing about management of a forest is that it means different things to different people. I'm all for utilizing our (emphasize the word "our") forests for a variety of purposes.

But, I also endorse the idea of keeping a bit of the oldest growth areas untouched. If for no other reason than to allow our grandchildren's grandchildren the pleasure of bull-dozing something pristine and ancient. Why should we have all the fun?

 

[PistolBob]

Cut 'em all down...we'll plant more

 

[bwframe]

You don't have to plant more, they'll grow on their own.

 

[seedubs1]

Uh.....just so much wrong here. Not really sure where to start.

I take it you haven’t hiked the clear cut sections in MMSF. They aren’t just “growing back” and they weren’t properly “re-planted”. The clear cut sections are now a bunch of sticker bush filled ****holes, and they’re choking out any trees that get started there. Lots of ruined old growth.

I use that forest area very frequently, and what they did pisses me off. I’ll never live long enough to see it how it was.

Cut 'em all down...we'll plant more

You don't have to plant more, they'll grow on their own.

 

[MindfulMan]

Agreed. We as humans seem to always think we need to manage and make things better. Some forest area should be left alone. We don’t need to meddle in everything. Forests were there before us, and they’ll be there after us. To think that we have to manage the wild is pretty narcissistic and inane IMHO.

I agree wholeheartedly ! Owning some wooded recreational land that borders Owen Putnam State Forest, I see firsthand (unfortunately) the result of the so called "managed logging". Beautiful old growth stands of trees disappear, and like you, I'll never live long enough to see nice regeneration .... if it happens at all !

 

[eldirector]

We actually have several different types of forests, managed several different ways. The issue is folks don't want THIS forest managed in the way it is currently, and also can't be bothered with the process to change management practices. They wait until the DNR is knee-deep in the "bad" process, and then start complaining.

Want the forests managed YOUR way? Get involved in a productive way.
DNR: Public Comment
DNR: Forest Stewardship Coordinating Committee

 

[dak109]

Ok, to take this thread on a new tangent:

It brought back memory from...er...40+ years ago when one of the local DNR guys who grew up in Brown County and was a family friend helped with the scout troop in Nashville, of which I was a member.

I was probably working on my forestry merit badge when he had me come out to Yellowwood with him one winter morning because he had a project where they were thinning out trees in a certain area and he wanted some of the trees dead (altho not cut down, at least not immediately - I dunno what forestry techniques were back then). He marked them with paint and I followed along more slowly and girdled them with an axe.

I don't remember which month it was, but it was exceptionally cold, well below zero, and a pretty good blanket of snow, so you got that dry crunching sound when walking in it. But the dry cold also made it very clear above, with lots of bright sun. I dressed for the weather and with swingin' the axe kept quite warm. Had a great morning starting a sunrise tramping around the woods. We finished around noon, probably went back to Nashville and got something warm to eat.

I try not to spend too much time regretting and wishing I was younger and all that, but I would love to feel like I did that morning again. Of course I didn't realize it at the time, but it was a great day.

I expect now that the DNR leadership would have a coronary if one of their foresters took a teenager out in the sticks to thrash trees with an axe. Oh the liability!

Might that have been Rex Waters? Troop 190.

 

[Sawmiller]

We already have areas of old growth that are untouched and never will be cut. They are the state parks, spring mill, pioneer mothers south of Paoli, I think McCormick’s creek to name a few. There are many others

sawmiller

 

[Sawmiller]

I encourage you to go to the state forest
look at the management plans, compare the number of total acres to the acerage cut.
look at how many years it will be before they revisit that tract of timber
we are growing way more footage than we are harvesting
trees are a very valuable renewable resource

with out a doubt trees will grow back

sawmiller