Indiana DNR - Why trees are being cut in Yellowwood Forest

[BehindBlueI's]

Isn't it strange that all of the participants in this thread who are instructing us in the benefits of forest management, seem to be guys who make their income from such practices.
Peculiar, huh ?

That people who actually know what they are doing chime in and people with no education or experience insist they are wrong? Not peculiar at all. Happens in every cop thread.

 

[MindfulMan]

That people who actually know what they are doing chime in and people with no education or experience insist they are wrong? Not peculiar at all. Happens in every cop thread.

I didn't want to make this personal, but you pushed the wrong button ..... so let me introduce myself.

In 1976, when I was discharged from the military, I didn't really have the kind of skills that were useful in the civilian world, but a friend of mine was one of the co-owners of the Brehob Nursery (still in business, on Bluff Rd. here in Indianapolis). I started out unloading truckloads of plant material from growers throughout the country, and also loading the same items on customer's trucks.
In the evening, I studied everything I could lay my hands on in the field of horticulture....... learning was different then, as there wasn't' any internet.
Within two years, I became the head manager for the business. I also was one of the first licensed pesticide applicators in the state of Indiana.

Without boring you with all the details of my career in horticulture, or continued education, it ended with me working for one of the largest nursery growers in the United States. That nursery was owned by Culbro Corporation (an abbreviation of sorts that stood for Cullman brothers ..... a New York stock exchange company). Edgar Cullman Jr. thought that my expertise is the field of horticulture was valuable enough to let me use his Lear jet twice a year. I'd take top nursery stock buyers from the Midwest, and fly them on the jet to our facilities in Connecticut, or Florida.
I would frequently give presentations to the Pittsburgh Landscape Association (and other similar organizations). One of my specialties was the development of grafted trees to improve the species. For example: why Aristocrat flowering pear was a better selection than Bradford pear for zone 6 and colder climates. I spoke in scientific nomenclature for the plant material ...... thousands of them.

My career, my education, my experience spanned decades.

I know how you cops like proof. If you'd request (via PM) BBI's, I'd be happy to give you my name, and the name of a dear friend who is currently a Major in the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department. He'd be happy to verify that everything I wrote is true.

 

[seedubs1]

Yup.

Isn't it strange that all of the participants in this thread who are instructing us in the benefits of forest management, seem to be guys who make their income from such practices.
Peculiar, huh ?

 

[seedubs1]

​MURDERERS! Do you even take your jack boots off to sleep?

Oh.....and I did take a few forestry classes in college. Just enough to know my ass from a hole in the ground. Needless to say, I’m not on the same page as the “experts” in this thread.

That people who actually know what they are doing chime in and people with no education or experience insist they are wrong? Not peculiar at all. Happens in every cop thread.

 

[bwframe]

 

[MindfulMan]

​Oh.....and I did take a few forestry classes in college. Just enough to know my ass from a hole in the ground. Needless to say, I’m not on the same page as the “experts” in this thread.

I don't claim to be an "expert". Where that bar is set depends on one's perspective. However, I do feel confident that I have a broader knowledge base on this subject than the average person.

BehindBlueI's is a well-respected member here, and I've enjoyed reading and learning from his knowledge in the area of firearms self-defense. His post was one of several that seemed to insult my intelligence without knowing any of my history. At rapidly closing in on 70 yrs. of age, there are only two disciplines where I claim to have extensive experience, and one of them is broadly labeled horticulture.

I'm not going to return to this thread, as I'm enjoying my retirement and my hobbies, and don't have any desire to pursue internet confrontations. In my limited experience on internet forums, I've rarely found that anyone changes their original opinion.

But in concluding (for me), I would ask all of you to ask yourselves why hundreds of prominent scientists ( who are legitimate experts ! ) sent a protest letter to the Governor ...... asking that logging our State Forests for profit be reduced. And specifically, they concluded that Yellow Wood forest would suffer an ecological decline from the proposed logging.

Here's a link to an article: https://www.theindychannel.com/news...scientists-oppose-brown-county-forest-logging

[FONT=&quot]The 228 scientists who signed a letter to Holcomb come from the following institutions: [/FONT]

• Indiana State University
• Earlham College
• University of Indianapolis
• Butler University
• University of Evansville
• Indiana University Kokomo
• Wabash College
• Depauw University
• Hanover College
• Franklin College
• Ball State University
• IUPUI
• Manchester University
• IU Bloomington
• IUPUI - Fort Wayne
• Valparaiso Univers

Unless you blindly cross them off as a bunch of "tree huggers" , I think it would sad to ignore their protest.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I didn't want to make this personal, but you pushed the wrong button ..... so let me introduce myself.

In 1976, when I was discharged from the military, I didn't really have the kind of skills that were useful in the civilian world, but a friend of mine was one of the co-owners of the Brehob Nursery (still in business, on Bluff Rd. here in Indianapolis). I started out unloading truckloads of plant material from growers throughout the country, and also loading the same items on customer's trucks.
In the evening, I studied everything I could lay my hands on in the field of horticulture....... learning was different then, as there wasn't' any internet.
Within two years, I became the head manager for the business. I also was one of the first licensed pesticide applicators in the state of Indiana.

Without boring you with all the details of my career in horticulture, or continued education, it ended with me working for one of the largest nursery growers in the United States. That nursery was owned by Culbro Corporation (an abbreviation of sorts that stood for Cullman brothers .

How is a nursery the same as forest management? Seriously asking. It seems to an outsider it would have as much in common as ranching does to running a restaurant. Both deal with beef, but it quite a different context.

 

[MindfulMan]

Oh, please allow me one more post. Someone earlier said something to the effect that "the people who own the fewest trees protest the loudest" (paraphrasing).
If you count the small ones, I own thousands of trees at my Owen county getaway property.
As is the vast majority of forests in eastern North America, it's a Maple Beech climax forest. This is considered a mature, final stage for a forest.

The wildlife is plentiful at my place .... from turtles to deer. As long as I'm alive, and own the deed, nothing will ever be harvested, except for some wild blackberries !
Here's a photo from last Fall. Eventually, our permanent home will replace the small cabin. If one of the 125' trees falls on the cabin and ends my life early, then so be it .... my time was nigh.

 

[MindfulMan]

How is a nursery the same as forest management? Seriously asking. It seems to an outsider it would have as much in common as ranching does to running a restaurant. Both deal with beef, but it quite a different context.

Fair question. Both deal with many similar disciplines: soil composition and chemistry involving nutrient requirements (humus in the wild, artificial fertilizer in a nursery enviroment), irrigation and run-off concerns, entomology (insect control), pollination, light requirements ...... gosh, and on and on.

I was able to plant many trees.... many..... 100's of acres worth early in my career..... and never had to cut a single tree. I took land that was used for corn and beans (therefore, already devoid of trees), and turned it into harvest-able nursery stock. Plants that I grew and later sold (millions, and millions of dollars worth) ended up beautifying homes and businesses throughout the Midwest.
No, I wasn't a brain surgeon, but I was proud of what I did.

 

[ghitch75]

i own 1000's of trees myself too....i took 80 out to build my house......put i do understand land management....

 

[MindfulMan]

OK, as I promised a couple of posts upthread, I'm outta here.
Please remember one thing for me .... and I hope I don't come-off as sounding preachy.

The human body inhales oxygen, and exhales carbon dioxide. A tree absorbs carbon dioxide, and releases oxygen back into air. Everyone of us has a symbiotic relationship with the trees and shrubs around us.
So if you don't feel like actually hugging a tree, please mutter thanks under your breath.

 

[yetti462]

Just want to mention that all the c
Universities listed are liberal wastes. Not one of them is has a credited forestry curriculum recognized by the SAF.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Fair question. Both deal with many similar disciplines: soil composition and chemistry involving nutrient requirements (humus in the wild, artificial fertilizer in a nursery enviroment), irrigation and run-off concerns, entomology (insect control), pollination, light requirements ...... gosh, and on and on.

I was able to plant many trees.... many..... 100's of acres worth early in my career..... and never had to cut a single tree. I took land that was used for corn and beans (therefore, already devoid of trees), and turned it into harvest-able nursery stock. Plants that I grew and later sold (millions, and millions of dollars worth) ended up beautifying homes and businesses throughout the Midwest.
No, I wasn't a brain surgeon, but I was proud of what I did.

Then I apologize.

 

[MindfulMan]

Then I apologize.

Giving an apology is the mark of a person who is in touch with their true self. Thanks !

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

That people who actually know what they are doing chime in and people with no education or experience insist they are wrong? Not peculiar at all. Happens in every cop thread.

And, like the cop threads, the main OP's point goes off one side and the other until you've got several going (although the OP in this tread didn't make a point, he posted an article about trees being cut and that some people didn't like it.)

Seems that one side of the debate believes that the life of every tree is equal to the life of any person, while the other side believes that the only good trees are the ones that are sawed and kiln-dried.

I'm somewhere in the middle. I do love trees, to the point that I could tell you where my favorite big trees are standing, and I don't always like to see them cut down, but I do also have a stack of hard-wood lumber in my garage/workshop.

I know enough about forestry to realize that there's a lot to forest management that I don't know. But, I know enough about industry to realize that corners are sometimes cut in the name of profit, and I know more than enough about state government to be uncertain of their ability or motivation for responsible oversight.