indy 1500 fake microtecs everywhere

[7.62]

Note: Only two items in Dean's pic came from me....The Microtech Scarab and the paracord lanyard on his key chain.

I forgot he is pretty good at wheelin and dealin like he did at the blade show!

 

[snowwalker]

I missed the word 'spend'. Damn it's hard to be perfect.

 

[rhino]

Lol! What you don't see in that picture is the inside is wallet is empty. Brad owns everything that was once in it!

Note: Only two items in Dean's pic came from me....The Microtech Scarab and the paracord lanyard on his key chain.

Clearly your marketing campaign has lost focus. Time to increase the pressure on the Crail.

 

[Bradsknives]

Clearly your marketing campaign has lost focus. Time to increase the pressure on the Crail.

No worries....even though the Crail has a GF, and went to the dark side by buying a Busse, I still have a card up my sleeve....Can you say....... "Medford Custom Artika".

 

[rhino]

No worries....even though the Crail has a GF, and went to the dark side by buying a Busse, I still have a card up my sleeve....Can you say....... "Medford Custom Artika".

I like where you're going with that.

I suspect you may entice him with an AdV Mega Butcher as well.

 

[Bradsknives]

I like where you're going with that.

I suspect you may entice him with an AdV Mega Butcher as well.

Not sure he could handle a Mega Butcher......... geez, look at the puny little Busse he just bought.

 

[rhino]

Not sure he could handle a Mega Butcher......... geez, look at the puny little Busse he just bought.

I know, right! That delicate little girly knife is going snap like a dry twig. I offered him $50 for it, but I'm revising to $25 since I'll have to splint it with popsicle sticks on both sides.

 

[Gunner72]

There have been clones at every show I have been to in last couple or years. Microtech, Benchmade just to name few. You better do your homework and know what to look for. At least handled a real one.
Infidels and Ultratechs are the most common clones I have seen.

 

[chizzle]

I know, right! That delicate little girly knife is going snap like a dry twig. I offered him $50 for it, but I'm revising to $25 since I'll have to splint it with popsicle sticks on both sides.

Rhino,
Sorry to interrupt your conversation, but I figured I'd pose this question since you and I have known each other for years. Do you know if it is possible for someone like Microtech to patent or trademark their product?

I totally understand a manufacturer's frustration if someone is falsely advertising a clone (i.e. selling a fake Rolex under the Rolex name). However, if there is no patent or trademark protection, I can't really blame folks for emulating excellent designs and making them as cost effectively as possible (as long as they are doing it under their own name). Like guns, there are those folks who will fork over the money for a "Made in Texas" STI 2011, and some folks with smaller budgets who will buy a Para, or one of the new clones that have hit the market since the patent protection expired.

Thanks for taking the time to read my message; I look forward to your thoughtful response.
Sincerely,
Chuck

 

[rhino]

Chuck!

Good to see you back, buddy. I should point out that most of my contribution in this topic has been color commentary. I do not approve of the theft of intellectual property nor defrauding customers, but my brain is overloaded with too much other stuff to worry much over it in the big picture sense. Those who have a commercial interest in this business have a lot to lose, though, and I respect their position and its intensity.

It's certainly possible to patent new technology and to trademark the aesthetics, and I'm sure some do. I also know that such measures will only discourage honorable people who respect those laws and conventions. Those who purposely manufacture counterfeits don't care whether something is patented or not and if they're far enough away, they face few if any potential repercussions from their behavior.

The big issue for me is not with clones and copies, but rather specifically when those clones and copies are marketed and sold as the "genuine" article. Lying is lying and I condemn that regardless of the venue. Some of that is on the manufacturers, but ultimately the burden of the crime and the shame rests on the seller who is actively defrauding customers. Certainly caveat emptor always plays a huge role especially when something is too good to be true, and I do recognize the consumer is ultimately responsible for their own choices.

However, consumers deserve honest representations of the products. Sometimes the lack thereof will make it difficult for a buyer to discern the validity of a product. For instance, if a counterfeit is sold at a grossly lower price than the genuine article it mimics, then it's not hard to apply the "it's too good to be true" principle. On the other hand, what if it's a very good counterfeit being sold at a price close enough to the real McCoy to not alert the buyer to potential fraud? They might think they're just getting a good deal. This isn't as much of a problem with poor copies, but has been noted here and elsewhere, sometimes the copies are indistinguishable from the originals even by subject matter experts.

Copying someone else's work without credit and/or permission is sleazy. Representing the copy as the "real thing" is a step higher on the scumbag ladder of fraud.

I don't have good answers to address this other than choosing to purchase only from reliable dealers who obtain their wares directly from the source. If I had a more comprehensive solution, I'd certainly throw it into the arena for discussion. Ultimately I can only control my choices and my actions, so I will choose to patronize Brad and Sheila (Knife Lady) and perhaps a few others as yet to be identified. I won't spend much time criticizing others who make different choices unless I am asked directly to express my opinion.

Wow! That was way too serious. I need to make a joke about accidentally cutting myself or something!

Rhino,
Sorry to interrupt your conversation, but I figured I'd pose this question since you and I have known each other for years. Do you know if it is possible for someone like Microtech to patent or trademark their product?

I totally understand a manufacturer's frustration if someone is falsely advertising a clone (i.e. selling a fake Rolex under the Rolex name). However, if there is no patent or trademark protection, I can't really blame folks for emulating excellent designs and making them as cost effectively as possible (as long as they are doing it under their own name). Like guns, there are those folks who will fork over the money for a "Made in Texas" STI 2011, and some folks with smaller budgets who will buy a Para, or one of the new clones that have hit the market since the patent protection expired.

Thanks for taking the time to read my message; I look forward to your thoughtful response.
Sincerely,
Chuck

 

[Bradsknives]

Almost all of the companies that have their products counterfeited, have their name and logos protected (Trademark), and have patents when applicable. The problem is, the trademark and patent laws are basically USA laws, and can not be enforced in places like China where 99% of the counterfeit products are being manufactured. The company's legal department can go after people that are selling their counterfeit products here in the states, but that does not stop the manufacturer from producing them, and getting them into the country.

 

[chizzle]

Almost all of the companies that have their products counterfeited, have their name and logos protected (Trademark), and have patents when applicable. The problem is, the trademark and patent laws are basically USA laws, and can not be enforced in places like China where 99% of the counterfeit products are being manufactured. The company's legal department can go after people that are selling their counterfeit products here in the states, but that does not stop the manufacturer from producing them, and getting them into the country.

We're the products that the OP mentioned at the Indy 1500 truly counterfeit (fake Microtech logo, etc.), or simply clones (copies of the design, but not claiming to be Microtech)?

 

[chizzle]

Chuck!

Good to see you back, buddy. I should point out that most of my contribution in this topic has been color commentary. I do not approve of the theft of intellectual property nor defrauding customers, but my brain is overloaded with too much other stuff to worry much over it in the big picture sense. Those who have a commercial interest in this business have a lot to lose, though, and I respect their position and its intensity.

It's certainly possible to patent new technology and to trademark the aesthetics, and I'm sure some do. I also know that such measures will only discourage honorable people who respect those laws and conventions. Those who purposely manufacture counterfeits don't care whether something is patented or not and if they're far enough away, they face few if any potential repercussions from their behavior.

The big issue for me is not with clones and copies, but rather specifically when those clones and copies are marketed and sold as the "genuine" article. Lying is lying and I condemn that regardless of the venue. Some of that is on the manufacturers, but ultimately the burden of the crime and the shame rests on the seller who is actively defrauding customers. Certainly caveat emptor always plays a huge role especially when something is too good to be true, and I do recognize the consumer is ultimately responsible for their own choices.

However, consumers deserve honest representations of the products. Sometimes the lack thereof will make it difficult for a buyer to discern the validity of a product. For instance, if a counterfeit is sold at a grossly lower price than the genuine article it mimics, then it's not hard to apply the "it's too good to be true" principle. On the other hand, what if it's a very good counterfeit being sold at a price close enough to the real McCoy to not alert the buyer to potential fraud? They might think they're just getting a good deal. This isn't as much of a problem with poor copies, but has been noted here and elsewhere, sometimes the copies are indistinguishable from the originals even by subject matter experts.

Copying someone else's work without credit and/or permission is sleazy. Representing the copy as the "real thing" is a step higher on the scumbag ladder of fraud.

I don't have good answers to address this other than choosing to purchase only from reliable dealers who obtain their wares directly from the source. If I had a more comprehensive solution, I'd certainly throw it into the arena for discussion. Ultimately I can only control my choices and my actions, so I will choose to patronize Brad and Sheila (Knife Lady) and perhaps a few others as yet to be identified. I won't spend much time criticizing others who make different choices unless I am asked directly to express my opinion.

Wow! That was way too serious. I need to make a joke about accidentally cutting myself or something!

Thank you for the thoughtful and thorough response.

 

[Bradsknives]

We're the products that the OP mentioned at the Indy 1500 truly counterfeit (fake Microtech logo, etc.), or simply clones (copies of the design, but not claiming to be Microtech)?

You will see both....actual counterfeits that use the Microtech name and logo, and then the clones that look like a Microtech, but do not have the Microtech name or logo on it, which I really don't have as much of a problem with*, as long as the seller is being honest about where it is being made, and the quality level. The reason I say this is, is there are a few sellers that are selling the clones that will tell potential customers that the clones are as good (quality) as the real deal which isn't true....most clones use the lowest quality materials available, and the tolerances, fit and finish are no where close to the real deal. There is one particular seller that I know of that will even tell you that they are USA made.......which just isn't true.

Note: This doesn't apply just to the Microtech brand. You will see counterfeit and clones for Strider, Emerson, Spyderco, Benchmade, Chris Reeve, and others at the shows.

* I don't like clones because the people that are manufacturing them are basically copying someone else's design/ingenuity, and hard work. Yes, they are legal products as long as there is no Name, Logo, or patent infringement.

 

[jhelm]

Well how about this...I went to a table at the 1500 and spoke with a guy selling the copies. I called them microtechs and he never corrected me plus he then started pointing out features of his combat troodon copies calling them as such....Maybe it's just me but I think that's crossing a line. Funny thing is I had a real microtech combat troodon in my pocket the whole time.