indy 1500 fake microtecs everywhere

[snowwalker]

Nothing positive comes from counterfeits, fakes, clones, or copies whether they are marked with a company's name/logo or not. The fact that the they (China) strive to manufacture knives that look exactly like the real deal is an obvious, and blatant attempt to cash in on someone else's design and hard work. Counterfeits, fakes, and clones devalue the “real” designer/manufacturer brand, and are not good for the knife community as a whole. IMO, people that purchase these are no better than the people that manufacture them, because they are supporting businesses that are less than ethical in their practices, and taking away from designers/manufacturers that actually have the ingenuity, and skills to design and manufacture.​

I understand, but the major thing you left out is costs. My budget is limited and a $500.00 to $3000.00 knife is not doable. I gave some thought to what you said and the 'real' designers are not devalued with the purists in mind. The same logic applies to firearms (or anything else), for example, no one makes a true Moses Browning design 1911 today and what is made today are all 'clones' of that design. Same goes for Glocks as many companies have cloned that design in one way or another. As long as the product works for me is my bottom line. Everybody buys stuff made in China, even you.

Used to be that union members that went to a restaurant would see where the silverware was made from. If it was made overseas they would leave and go somewhere else. Same with towels at hotels and motels, but little of that happens today for obvious reasons. Not one vehicle is 100% US made today.

We may not agree and that's okay, the only people I need to please is me and my family. No hate here, I can only do what I can do.

 

[Bradsknives]

I understand, but the major thing you left out is costs. My budget is limited and a $500.00 to $3000.00 knife is not doable. I gave some thought to what you said and the 'real' designers are not devalued with the purists in mind. The same logic applies to firearms (or anything else), for example, no one makes a true Moses Browning design 1911 today and what is made today are all 'clones' of that design. Same goes for Glocks as many companies have cloned that design in one way or another. As long as the product works for me is my bottom line. Everybody buys stuff made in China, even you.

Used to be that union members that went to a restaurant would see where the silverware was made from. If it was made overseas they would leave and go somewhere else. Same with towels at hotels and motels, but little of that happens today for obvious reasons. Not one vehicle is 100% US made today.

We may not agree and that's okay, the only people I need to please is me and my family. No hate here, I can only do what I can do.

I'm fully aware that there are basically two types of people that buy counterfeit products.The first type has what they think is perfect information on the product and is willing to purchase the fakes to meet their needs at a desirable price range. The other type of person that buys counterfeits has imperfect information on the product and is mostly a victim of a commercial scam or con. While I don't agree with purchasing counterfeits for any reason, I do realize that people have finanical limitations. However, the counterfeit problem exists at just about every price point, not just for the higher end knives. Example: There are a ton of counterfeit Spyderco knives flooding the country. The real/legit Spyderco models that are being copied are not expensive knives, and many of them can be bought for under $150.00, and some at the $100.00 price point. My opinion is not based on where an item is being made. This is not a discussion about buying 100% US made. I have no problem with items that are made/manufactured outside of the USA as long as they are legitimate. The only reason “China” is mentioned in my OP is because a very large percentage of counterfeits, clones, and copies are being manufactured in China.​

 

[Expat]

I did some reading around about those knives on dhgate... they don't seem to get very good marks quality wise.

 

[Bradsknives]

I did some reading around about those knives on dhgate... they don't seem to get very good marks quality wise.

This shouldn't be surprising. In most cases you can't buy "good quality" at a cheap price. I would not believe or trust any thing that is in the product description (materials being used-blade steel). Thieves that profit off of other peoples designs and hard work are probably being less than honest about the quality of the materials they are using.

 

[Dean C.]

I understand, but the major thing you left out is costs. My budget is limited and a $500.00 to $3000.00 knife is not doable. I gave some thought to what you said and the 'real' designers are not devalued with the purists in mind. The same logic applies to firearms (or anything else), for example, no one makes a true Moses Browning design 1911 today and what is made today are all 'clones' of that design. Same goes for Glocks as many companies have cloned that design in one way or another. As long as the product works for me is my bottom line. Everybody buys stuff made in China, even you.

Found an original 1912 Colt 1911 for you, this is honestly truer to the modern 1911's than the A1 series because the very first models had the flat mainspring over the A1's arched mainspring housing. The only real differences now are a longer safety, hammer and sights and you now have a modern 1911. Saying 1911 is a clone is just wrong on so many different ways and i bet 99.99% of people out there would agree with me.

And on the topic of fakes, everyone who makes them or knowingly buys them are thieves end of story. They hurt regular people as well as the original designers and creators of the knives. I have personally seen people at gun shows that paid the price of the real deal for a fake because they believed the markings and thought the fakes were real. This almost happened to another INGO member pretty recently and he is a fairly knowledgeable knife person.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/cutting-edge/391485-fake-strider.html

Heck even spyderco is having a serious fake issue right now and they are not even super expensive, people are worried about buying fakes and that just makes them avoid the brand all together to avoid the hassle. It does not matter that you cant afford the knife, if you want one start saving and get the real deal or buy something else. Kershaw makes tons of good options for the $50-$100 range and so does spyderco.
Spyderco Fakes & Knock Offs Info
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1324296-Benchmade-Fakes-knock-offs-counterfeits-thread?highlight=fakes
The Chinese Counterfiters have upped their game......
UPDATE ! Microtech expert & able to spot a fake vs a real one? | The Outdoors Trader (and the members there didn't even know if it was fake or not too!)

And justifying buying the clone by saying everyone else clones everything else is crazy, that would be like me saying every other car company if just a clone of Mercedes Benz (inventor of the automobile and first car company in the world), or saying every polymer framed handgun is a clone of the HK VP70. And just saying your precious fakeshark is illegal every single one I say on DH gate is either marked Marfione Custom, or Microtech, sold as being a microtech or comes in a microtech branded box and that good sir is illegal as hell.

Original production 1911 just to give visual proof.

This is a topic that I am very passionate about and so are allot of people in the knife word just go to forums such as the USN and Bladeforums and my feelings listed above as to fakes would be considered very very tame.

 

[snowwalker]

I don't and wouldn't use DH gate and really know nothing about the sight. I do buy something else, just don't see it as you do. 103 year old pistol that is not made today supports my point. Remember, you do have China stuff too.

 

[Dean C.]

I don't and wouldn't use DH gate and really know nothing about the sight. I do buy something else, just don't see it as you do. 103 year old pistol that is not made today supports my point. Remember, you do have China stuff too.

I can say that not a single one of my knives are made outside of the USA though, same goes for the guns. And colt still makes an 1911, they may be bankrupt but they still make 1911s and since they are the people who bought the design of the 1911 from JMB I say they qualify. Good on you for ignoring the rest of my points though. Also I would love to hear who you bought the fakeshark from then, if they are an American re-seller there are legal issues afoot.

 

[snowwalker]

Goodnight sir. I addressed what was worthy to address, at least to me. No firearm company makes a 1911 straight from Browning's original design today, that is just fact. I bought it off eBay.

 

[tradertator]

This 1911 argument doesn't hold water. Put the whole Browning / Colt / blah blah blah thing aside. Would you be in favor of the Chinese (just using them as an example because they're definitely the guiltiest) of making 1911's out of pot metal and writing Les Baer or Wilson on the side? You could argue that not everyone can afford something like a Nighthawk, and at least this way, you can buy a ****ty copy and pretend..... Making a ****ty fake of a product using near slave labor, and then having the nerve to forge the name of whoever you're ripping off on the side is criminal. People sometimes buy and trade these fakes unknowingly. And when they break, they get sent into whoever made the original, to be asked to warrant them. Most of these shops being stolen from like Strider, Emerson, Chris Reeve, Microtech, and Hinderer and small companies, built by folks that busted their ass to make a product that you can bet your life on. They worked hard for the reputation they've earned. Fool yourself all you want, but what is being done is not ethical and incredibly deceitful.

 

[churchmouse]

This 1911 argument doesn't hold water. Put the whole Browning / Colt / blah blah blah thing aside. Would you be in favor of the Chinese (just using them as an example because they're definitely the guiltiest) of making 1911's out of pot metal and writing Les Baer or Wilson on the side? You could argue that not everyone can afford something like a Nighthawk, and at least this way, you can buy a ****ty copy and pretend..... Making a ****ty fake of a product using near slave labor, and then having the nerve to forge the name of whoever you're ripping off on the side is criminal. People sometimes buy and trade these fakes unknowingly. And when they break, they get sent into whoever made the original, to be asked to warrant them. Most of these shops being stolen from like Strider, Emerson, Chris Reeve, Microtech, and Hinderer and small companies, built by folks that busted their ass to make a product that you can bet your life on. They worked hard for the reputation they've earned. Fool yourself all you want, but what is being done is not ethical and incredibly deceitful.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[churchmouse]

Goodnight sir. I addressed what was worthy to address, at least to me. No firearm company makes a 1911 straight from Browning's original design today, that is just fact. I bought it off eBay.

No, but they are very very close.
What we have today is the direct descendant of the original and it is superior in so many ways.

If the design was still an exact copy it would have withered and died.

 

[Bradsknives]

I don't and wouldn't use DH gate and really know nothing about the sight. I do buy something else, just don't see it as you do. 103 year old pistol that is not made today supports my point. Remember, you do have China stuff too.

This discussion is NOT about where products/items are being made..... It's about counterfeits, fakes, and clones, and the negative impact they have on the makers/manufactures that are being copied.

 

[churchmouse]

This discussion is NOT about where products/items are being made..... It's about counterfeits, fakes, and clones, and the negative impact they have on the makers/manufactures that put their blood, sweat, and tears into the real thing.

Folks will justify their choices.

I never knowingly buy a clone for the reasons you give.

 

[Bradsknives]

Folks will justify their choices.

I never knowingly buy a clone for the reasons you give.

Agreed 100%.....snowwalker's justification for buying clones, is based on the price point. He specifically states he can't afford a $500 to $3000 knife, but does not address the fact that a lot of the counterfeits, fakes, and clones are for knives that are considered inexpensive....like the Spyderco models that are being copied. I'm still waiting for some kind of logical reason as to why it's acceptable or justifiable to buy those counterfeits, fakes, and clones when the real deal is affordable for most people.

While I don't know that much about firearm's history. The whole Browning/Colt analogy doesn't hold water for the justification in buying counterfeits, fakes, and clones, simply because Browning chose to sell the rights to their 1911 design to Colt. When Colt started manufacturing 1911 handguns they were doing it legally. In most cases with counterfeits, fakes, and clones, the manufacturers of these are infringing on design patents, registered names and logos.

 

[churchmouse]

Agreed 100%.....snowwalker's justification for buying clones, is based on the price point. He specifically states he can't afford a $500 to $3000 knife, but does not address the fact that a lot of the counterfeits, fakes, and clones are for knives that are considered inexpensive....like the Spyderco models that are being copied. I'm still waiting for some kind of logical reason as to why it's acceptable or justifiable to buy those counterfeits, fakes, and clones when the real deal is affordable for most people.

I have found that in our chosen hobby/passion that you get what you pay for.
Yes, looking for a deal and the chase is all part of it. Finding a $500 knife for $200 sends up a red flag. At least for me.

 

[NHT3]

Saw a guy at a swap meet several years ago that had Rolex watches for $25.. I noticed that one of them was missing the crown on the stem and realized that the crown was just a "stick on". Boy was I disappointed, who would have thought you couldn't buy a real Rolex for $25??? You get what you pay for and that statement has never been more true than it is today. As CM noted, anyone that doesn't hear sirens and see red flags when they see something priced at 10% of what it should cost just gets what they get.
If you can't figure out where to place the purple, color ME dumb.
[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]-- [/FONT][FONT=&amp]GSSF member[/FONT]
Glock certified armorer- M&P Certified armorer
NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] /[/FONT][FONT=&amp] RSO[/FONT]

 

[rhino]

Someone who can afford $50 for a counterfeit Microtech could choose to spend that same money on a real Kershaw or even some Spydercos and have an excellent tool that will last a lifetime.

 

[Hookeye]

From my experience a lot of farmers are cheapskates.
Changing a waterpump 3 times because they saved $25 bucks by going with the cheapest one available........is OK with them.
They don't go by the hourly clock, they go by the year.
The abuse many do to tools.........they don't deserve a good knife.
Hell, they'd use a Behring old school sambar hunter to pry a nail out of a chunk of 2x4 so they could level a pallet to set three bald and dry rotted tires.

 

[jsharmon7]

Snowwalker,

The argument isn't about someone buying a $20 knife from Ebay because that's all their budget allows. If you want to buy a "Coast" or "Sheffield" brand knife because money is tight then have at it; nobody is judging you. The issue is someone who knowingly buys/sells a $20 knife off Ebay that says "Strider" or "Chris Reeve" or "Microtech" on the side. Tradertator summed it up perfectly with the "Les Bear" comparison. If you have a fake, junk product of any kind that you try to pass off as the real deal, it hurts the market. Someone who doesn't know much about knives might hear that Strider is a high-quality brand. They find that $40 rip-off online and then when it arrives dull, sloppy, and breaks in a few days they think "Strider sucks!" Strider has built a reputation (and the justification for higher prices) on quality. If enough of those poorly-built fakes hit the market then it devalues their brand. The guy selling the fake is also making money off somebody else's hard work and reputation. If you spend 10 years of your career perfecting your particular widget, I'm sure you'd be upset if I started making junk widgets and putting your logo on them. You're making a high-quality widget and demanding a premium price and I just roll in with junk and start making money off your logo and your 10 years of dedication. Plus, people don't trust your widget because of bad experiences with mine. The most important thing in business is your brand.

 

[snowwalker]

Let me start with some appreciation, at least churchmouse understands.

Second: From Dean Crail and he is at least part accurate.
1) "The Chinese Counterfiters have upped their game......
UPDATE ! Microtech expert & able to spot a fake vs a real one? | The Outdoors Trader (and the members there didn't even know if it was fake or not too!) " I bought a no name knife that resembles a Microtech Whale Shark that is a very well made clone. The grip is orange and there is no name or markings on the knife and still is high quality. I also don't try to pass it off as original.
2) "Heck even spyderco is having a serious fake issue right now and they are not even super expensive, people are worried about buying fakes and that just makes them avoid the brand all together to avoid the hassle."
Some Spydercos are made in China, for example, Tenacious, Persistence and all others in that low budget line are China made. These are solid knives made overseas for $100.00 and less bought here in the US. Some of Buck's lower end are made in China. Just read some reviews. That is just to mention two. They are legitimate.

On the high end knives made here like Microtech, where is the steel coming from? Very little steel is produced
in the US anymore because of all the government regulations put on the companies here. Same would apply to other parts of the knife, is it all US original? Again, the same would apply to firearms, is all the steel and parts of the firearms US made or how about the modifications a lot of people make? Are you sure and how can you be?

My point is simple, I buy and use what works for me, I like Glocks best, and if that upsets some people I just don't care at my age anymore. So be it. Thanks to all for hearing me out.