INGO LEO's Please weigh in on this.

[SideArmed]

Interesting take I suppose. I've been pepper sprayed numerous times and I'm still alive. If that was the cause of death, I'm sure the article would have pointed it out.

Here I should clarify: It apears that the hypoxic encephalopathy suffered by the suspect (Nicholas Christie) following the resuscitation for cardiac arrest, that was caused by stress induced from restraint and exccessive use of OC spray, was determined to be the cause of death. As cited by the medical examiner:

Source:

Dr. Robert Pfalzgraf, deputy chief medical examiner, concluded that stress caused by restraint and pepper spray were irritants and stressors to his heart. He says that 99 percent of the time those sprayed do not die. Christie was the 1 percent.
The medical examiner’s report indicates that the death was caused by “hypoxic encephalopathy following resuscitation for cardiac arrest, cardiac shock with congestive heart failure, physiologic stress following restraint and noxious effects of oleoresin capsicum.”

What if they in fact, "tossed him in a cell?" And then he suffocated or turned his brain into mashed potatoes by running his head into a wall? Then someone is culpable for that, right?

Very well could have. But there is a large difference between someone in custody taking their own life and that of one suffering from a heart attack as the results of the way they were treated while in custody.

I've never worked in a jail and have no desire to. Their jobs are damn near impossible and then you get a bunch of people that second guess their actions based on fact-exempt articles that are only trying to get an emotional reaction from people.

No doubt, anyone in the law enforcment game has a rough job, I don't disagree there at all. And yes the initial article did seem written to strictly envoke an emotional response. And perhaps I posted first without researching further, but since then my stance hasn't changed. Well other than the fact that now I know (from the above source)

A homicide does not necessarily mean that the death was a criminal act only that it was caused by a person or persons.

I am not second guessing every single action by LEO's, just the ones that end in the death of an over weight 62 year old man who suffered from emphysema, COPD, back, and heart problems, whom was denied water to wash off the OC spray multiple times.

Oh, and also when one of the officers present makes statements like this under oath it makes one wonder:

Monshay Gibbs was a deputy trainee at the jail at the time. In a video deposition, she testified that she thought the way Nick Christie was treated was excessive.
"He had a spit mask on and was naked," she said on the video while under oath. Gibbs testified that Christie pleaded with guards to take off the spit mask because he couldn't breathe.

Taken from the original posted link.

More reading:
LEOAFFAIRS.COM • View topic - Lee County Jail inmate death ruled homocide by Med Examiner
Wife suing in Lee County inmate's death | The News-Press | news-press.com

 

[level.eleven]

LEOAFFAIRS.COM • View topic - Lee County Jail inmate death ruled homocide by Med Examiner

From that link, it is indicated that the death was never reported. State attorneys first learned of the death from watching the news. It also implies the hood was attached after the sprayings (2 fog machines piped into the cell) as the victim had OC in his mouth and was attempting to spit it out. The depositions seem interesting as well. A he said she said. The nurse recommended the jailor stop with the spraying based on his health records from a previous arrest. She claimed the jailor laughed at her and said it was "good training". Naturally, the jailors story differs.

 

[SideArmed]

From that link, it is indicated that the death was never reported. State attorneys first learned of the death from watching the news. It also implies the hood was attached after the sprayings (2 fog machines piped into the cell) as the victim had OC in his mouth and was attempting to spit it out.

Interesting.

Link to the actual new article that is refereced in the forum post.
Feds investigating Lee County jail death » Naples Daily News

 

[steveh_131]

I didn't pull the "Cop bashing" card.
colt45er did!!!
I merely make a sarcastic comment based on his observation.
Your personal dislike for me, and my chosen profession, is a prime example of what I'm talking about.
Carry on...

I pointed you out because you just did it in another thread as well.

 

[fireblade]

I have worked with DOJ (Civil Rights Division) in the past trust me they do good work the truth will come out even if the state doesn't want it to......

first some basic facts:

1. the use of restraints especially 3 way or 4 way to a bed of chair must be approved by medical staff of superintendent

2. there is a use of force policy must be used................. pepper spaying a J3 who is in a 3 way or four way restraints is a big mistake .......second any time OC is used pepper spay medical treatment must be given or offered .

3. putting a spit mask on a J3 after use of pepper spay with out a medical evaluation is a big mistake.

what little info that has been given its sounds like a failure from the officers on scene not following use of force policies and the medical staff not following restraints and treatment of use of force policies......

as for those who cry about cop bashing ... i love good cops .......and i love getting rid of the bad ones

 

[Expat]

I have worked with DOJ (Civil Rights Division) in the past trust me they do good work

As long as it advances the political leanings of AG Holder and his boss.

 

[thebishopp]

As a retired LEO I have some problems with this.

A LEO may use that degree of force which is necessary to overcome resistance and effect a lawful arrest. Force used beyond that constitutes assault.

I had a number of experiences in dealing with very dangerous mentally deranged individuals who had to be restrained and apprehended. The trouble for LEOs in dealing with such people is that most of our non-lethal techniques utilize pain compliance, and people having psychotic episodes simply do not have a pain threshold. In pre-taser days all you could do was get a lot of cops together, pile on the guy, get the cuffs on him and then strap him to a stretcher, all while trying to injure him as little as you can.

However, once you have your man under control, use of force STOPS.

Such an individual does not belong in a detention facility, which makes me wonder why this guy was in a jail for 48 hours? In my jurisdiction he would have been transported directly from the arrest location to an appropriate mental health facility.

If he was being detained in such a way that it was necessary to pepper spray him at regular intervals, then he was clearly not under control and was being restrained improperly.

My biggest question as a retired command officer is, where the hell were the supervisors when this was going on?

If I'd ever walked into a police or detention facility and found a naked guy strapped to a chair with a bag over his head while cops were taking turns pepper spraying him I definitely would have had someone's ass.

If everything as described is true, this situation was handled VERY badly and the agency is culpable in this man's death.

This. +1

 

[Fletch]

As a retired LEO I have some problems with this.

A LEO may use that degree of force which is necessary to overcome resistance and effect a lawful arrest. Force used beyond that constitutes assault.

I had a number of experiences in dealing with very dangerous mentally deranged individuals who had to be restrained and apprehended. The trouble for LEOs in dealing with such people is that most of our non-lethal techniques utilize pain compliance, and people having psychotic episodes simply do not have a pain threshold. In pre-taser days all you could do was get a lot of cops together, pile on the guy, get the cuffs on him and then strap him to a stretcher, all while trying to injure him as little as you can.

However, once you have your man under control, use of force STOPS.

Such an individual does not belong in a detention facility, which makes me wonder why this guy was in a jail for 48 hours? In my jurisdiction he would have been transported directly from the arrest location to an appropriate mental health facility.

If he was being detained in such a way that it was necessary to pepper spray him at regular intervals, then he was clearly not under control and was being restrained improperly.

My biggest question as a retired command officer is, where the hell were the supervisors when this was going on?

If I'd ever walked into a police or detention facility and found a naked guy strapped to a chair with a bag over his head while cops were taking turns pepper spraying him I definitely would have had someone's ass.

If everything as described is true, this situation was handled VERY badly and the agency is culpable in this man's death.

Wow... a cop that doesn't make me afraid of cops.

 

[thebishopp]

as for those who cry about cop bashing ... i love good cops .......and i love getting rid of the bad ones

this really should be the thought / goal for everyone. Leo, former Leo, and average citizen alike.

 

[SideArmed]

as for those who cry about cop bashing ... i love good cops .......and i love getting rid of the bad ones

I aprove this message. +1

 

[UncleMike]

I pointed you out because you just did it in another thread as well.

Yeah...
I'm aware that you follow my posts and make your snarky comments whenever possible.
Carry on...

 

[steveh_131]

Yeah...
I'm aware that you follow my posts and make your snarky comments whenever possible.
Carry on...

You should try saying things that make sense. You will probably see a decrease in snarky comments.

 

[CarmelHP]

One of the warnings on OC spray is to avoid spraying directly into the mouth. It can cause the throat and airway to swell, convulse and close causing death.

 

[level.eleven]

It is also important to note the level of institutional corruption in this case. The death was never reported. A judge issued an arrest warrant for the man 3 weeks after he died in custody. It took another 2 weeks for the sheriff to inform the court that the man was dead. The "internal investigation" returned a finding of no wrongdoing on anyone's behalf and was backed by the AG. It took a call to the feds by the attorney of the deceased for anyone in the sheriff's department to take the case seriously.

How can someone die in jail and no one even reports it to the proper authorities result in a total clearance of wrongdoing?

 

[88GT]

It is also important to note the level of institutional corruption in this case. The death was never reported. A judge issued an arrest warrant for the man 3 weeks after he died in custody. It took another 2 weeks for the sheriff to inform the court that the man was dead. The "internal investigation" returned a finding of no wrongdoing on anyone's behalf and was backed by the AG. It took a call to the feds by the attorney of the deceased for anyone in the sheriff's department to take the case seriously.

How can someone die in jail and no one even reports it to the proper authorities result in a total clearance of wrongdoing?

government efficiency at work. Even if the death were entirely benign, even if none of the questionable methods had been used, the lack of proper reporting and oversight reeks.

 

[Wwwildthing]

Photo shows pepper-sprayed prisoner

 

[TheDude]

Were these jail deputies or actual beat cops?

Edit: Corrections Officers, not Law Enforcement Officers.
Pepper Sprayed Man Dies In Jail - What Happened To Nick Christie?

And I learned something new apparently Homicide can occur with there being a criminal act.

You mean, not police officers.

 

[dross]

How can someone die in jail and no one even reports it to the proper authorities result in a total clearance of wrongdoing?

I think it's because people want to get home at night.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I think it's because people want to get home at night.

Yep, you report that and you are not going home anytime soon

 

[Gunner52]

Here I should clarify: It apears that the hypoxic encephalopathy suffered by the suspect (Nicholas Christie) following the resuscitation for cardiac arrest, that was caused by stress induced from restraint and exccessive use of OC spray, was determined to be the cause of death. As cited by the medical examiner:

Source:






Very well could have. But there is a large difference between someone in custody taking their own life and that of one suffering from a heart attack as the results of the way they were treated while in custody.



No doubt, anyone in the law enforcment game has a rough job, I don't disagree there at all. And yes the initial article did seem written to strictly envoke an emotional response. And perhaps I posted first without researching further, but since then my stance hasn't changed. Well other than the fact that now I know (from the above source)

I am not second guessing every single action by LEO's, just the ones that end in the death of an over weight 62 year old man who suffered from emphysema, COPD, back, and heart problems, whom was denied water to wash off the OC spray multiple times.

Oh, and also when one of the officers present makes statements like this under oath it makes one wonder:
Taken from the original posted link.

More reading:
LEOAFFAIRS.COM • View topic - Lee County Jail inmate death ruled homocide by Med Examiner
Wife suing in Lee County inmate's death | The News-Press | news-press.com

Where did all the defenders of the perps go after this post?