INMG Series - Wildcat Valley April 29

[jaschutz79]

Don't worry, I can make you miss at 25 yds just as easily as I can at 200.

You sir were correct. I was humbled by my lack of ability to make hits on targets that simulated distance. Well done! Great match and i thank all who made it possible.

 

[SERVED_USMC]

trial and error. i think the idea is not a bad one, but, malfuntions and <33% accuracy aside, someone who is new and is hitting one out of 3 shots should be able to complete a stage (1/3 being the harder rifle shots, pistol poppers, plates etc. pretty much everyone i have seen has been about 90% or better with their shotguns)
im new to this sport, and i think it is a lot of fun, but there could definately be some tweaking to make it better. what is the answer? i dont know, but i can give my input, and those that know better (those that arent there to say f the new guys you seem to come across) can take it for what it is worth along with everyone else's opinions.
the new guys are the future of your sport. the top guys with the sponsors need the new guys to buy things from the sponsors to keep the sponsors happy. the ranges need the income and the events need to attendance to continue to grow and not just fade away. run the newbies off, and sport dies, simple as that.

Not sure why you think what I said was an attack on the "new guys". I've shot a grand total of 6 (maybe less) multi gun matches since last year. So I am the new guy you think I'm talking down to. If it wasn't for the help of some seasoned shooters, I wouldn't be shooting.

I do think that upping a par time on longer stages would help a larger percentage of shooters finish the stage, but I don't think completely eliminating par times is the answer.

Does anyone know who makes those flasher targets that were on the long stage? I want one!

 

[SERVED_USMC]

You sir were correct. I was humbled by my lack of ability to make hits on targets that simulated distance. Well done! Great match and i thank all who made it possible.

This man speaks the truth. By the 10th rifle round on those clays, I finally hit one. Tony sets up a very fine balance between frustration and fun. HAHA!

 

[jwfuhrman]

What the majority of shooters need to realize is, KNOW WHERE YOUR GUNS ARE HITTING AT VARIOUS DISTANCES and to bring gear that actually works. In the 3 years I've been doing this now, I've seen more times than not someone take for ever on a stage because they "THINK" they have their rifle sighted in but really dont, or they have tons of issues with a shotgun or pistol.

On some stages, if you spend 30rds trying to hit 4 targets, you wasted to much time and it doesn't matter any ways. If you have to put more than 3 rounds at any target, at any distance, MOVE ON, stop shooting, take the penalties and go on to the next.

If you EVER plan on shooting any major match, get used to par times of 100secs...... LaRue Texas Multigun match last weekend, their LONG RANGE rifle(out to 500ish) had a par time of 100 seconds, everything else was 75 seconds.

The Par Times will be staying. Spending any more than 1min 40secs shooting a stage is way way way to much time.

 

[THolland]

What the majority of shooters need to realize is, KNOW WHERE YOUR GUNS ARE HITTING AT VARIOUS DISTANCES and to bring gear that actually works. In the 3 years I've been doing this now, I've seen more times than not someone take for ever on a stage because they "THINK" they have their rifle sighted in but really dont, or they have tons of issues with a shotgun or pistol.

On some stages, if you spend 30rds trying to hit 4 targets, you wasted to much time and it doesn't matter any ways. If you have to put more than 3 rounds at any target, at any distance, MOVE ON, stop shooting, take the penalties and go on to the next.

If you EVER plan on shooting any major match, get used to par times of 100secs...... LaRue Texas Multigun match last weekend, their LONG RANGE rifle(out to 500ish) had a par time of 100 seconds, everything else was 75 seconds.

The Par Times will be staying. Spending any more than 1min 40secs shooting a stage is way way way to much time.

I myself have not shot a match yet and do not have anything to go on as for the par time issue but would it be beneficial to maybe put the guys that this their first time out or with very few matches under there belt in groups together and give those groups a longer par time for the course and let the more seasoned shooters go through the course first, meaning put all the seasoned shooters through the course and let the less seasoned shooters bring up the rear.

Just my .01

 

[jwfuhrman]

With Squads and usually 6 stages that's 1 squad per stage. Everyone starts on a stage assigned to them and rotates thru the rest until finished. Therefore a squad of all new shooters would slow everyone else down even more, this the par time. Having almost 2 minutes to complete a course of fire is WAY more time than is necessary.

 

[THolland]

With Squads and usually 6 stages that's 1 squad per stage. Everyone starts on a stage assigned to them and rotates thru the rest until finished. Therefore a squad of all new shooters would slow everyone else down even more, this the par time. Having almost 2 minutes to complete a course of fire is WAY more time than is necessary.

That makes sense. I have not shot one so I didn't know.

 

[mertbl]

Not sure why you think what I said was an attack on the "new guys". I've shot a grand total of 6 (maybe less) multi gun matches since last year. So I am the new guy you think I'm talking down to. If it wasn't for the help of some seasoned shooters, I wouldn't be shooting.

I do think that upping a par time on longer stages would help a larger percentage of shooters finish the stage, but I don't think completely eliminating par times is the answer.

Does anyone know who makes those flasher targets that were on the long stage? I want one!

Series sponsor Fuhrman precision makes the flash targets on stage 5.

 

[jwfuhrman]

That we do, thanks for the comment Blake, I didn't see it.

facebook.com/fuhrmanprecision

260-728-9600

 

[jve153]

Served.. I am sorry I mistook your posts. Pleasures of reading people based on text. I don't think par times are a horrible idea, I just think by trial and error, something that works can be found. As far as going higher than local matches, I could care less how their par system is set up. The majority of people that were there Sunday will never go that far because they don't want to spend the time effort to do it. Some of us are out there to just shoot and have fun. We don't want to ruin the serious guys fun, but we want to have fun as well.

 

[jwfuhrman]

Like I said before, know where your gun is actually shooting and bring stuff that actually works and there wont be any problems. There is 0 need to be dumping so many rounds at targets like some do. If you have to shoot 10 rounds at 1 8in target at 100 yards then you obviously have no clue where your gun is sighted in at, there fore just move on. 8in target at 100 yards is HUGE.....

 

[thecolter]

This was my first multi gun match and I had a great time. Tony put on a great match and I thank everyone involved in running and attending the match.

I will echo Jon's statement about knowing your equipment and zeroes/holds at various distances. I cleared every stage under the par, but I also spent a lot of time prior to the match ensuring I had good zeroes and understanding what my holds are at various distances with each gun. I still used a bit more ammo than I would have liked at some points due to poor technique and some mistakes, but it was totally doable.

I believe new shooters will not totally be discouraged from continuing to attend matches and get into the sport. They do, however, need to be prepared before they show up to a match. Spend some time practicing at various distances and know what your gun is going to do. If it's a fundamentals or technique issue, practice and training are the only things that will solve that. New and seasoned shooters alike can take what they've learned from a match and identify what they need to work on.

 

[Vespid_Wasp]

Timing out should be incentive to practice, study, dry fire, zero, rezero, confirm zero, confirm zero at all ranges, learn hold overs or come-ups for expected ranges, and generally improve. THis is all supposed to be for fun, but some restrictions have to be in place to keep things moving. I saw a few situations where some shooters didn't have enough ammo on their body to keep going much beyond the par time. It happens, especially to newer shooters. They would be best served with a desire to practice so that it doesn't happen again. There is nothing to be ashamed of as a new shooter timing out. We were all there once. 3-gunners are not a judgemental lot. When I was new.. I was TERRIBLE with the shotgun, and I thought I was good with a rifle.. but I wasn't. I am probably now most proficient with a shotgun, improving with a rifle, and my pistol skills have gone backwards. Off to the range for practice.

Also: If you are a new shooter, remember. Texas star.. .shoot the top plate first, and either work your way down, or work your way around. DONT shoot a bottom plate first. Unless a devious match director has placed a no-shoot somewhere that necessitates some healthy rotation.

 

[mertbl]

Stage 5 might have benefitted from an additional 20 seconds of par time. The long range and the star definitely hurt some. Ive learned several things about my equipment and my skill set that need improved over the last two matches. By the series end i should be a well tuned 3gun machine.

 

[rz317]

Thanks again to everyone who showed up and shot the match... and especially to Tony and his set up crew for putting a really great match together.

Personally, I don't want to ever have to cap attendance. Doing so means two things I never want to see... fewer dollars that go back into the sport to make it bigger and better the following season, and fewer 3-Gunners being out participating. Obviously, there is a limit to this, but until we actually have say, 120 or more shooters showing up, I'm strongly against limiting attendance.

Par times are part of the solution of these increased attendance numbers to keep things moving. I really don't want to see us ever having par times longer than 100 seconds. 1:40 is a lot of time... that's more than 5x as long as your typical stage at a club-level pistol match. So, instead of increasing par times for the more demanding stages, such as Stage 5, we need to just whittle down the stage a little. I know, I know, we all love big stages with all 3 guns, plus switching between birdshot and slugs like we did on Stage 5... I mean, that's MultiGun at it's best. But back to my point... Stage 5 just needed whittled down a little. 20/20 hindsight, we could've taken the pistol portion out, or take one of the slugs out, or take a few birdshot targets out to reduce the shotgun reloading, etc. But, before I go any further, the major thing here is that Tony put on an awesome match. Someone reading some of this thread may think that there were serious issues with this match... What we're talking about here is a small detail. Now that that's on the table...

As far as reducing the number of stages, that we just cannot do. We need several squads due to our recent turnout numbers. If we have 85 shooters show up, then minimally we need 6 squads of 14 or 15... 7 squads of 12 or 13 would be better. You have to have somewhere for these people to go, so that means having 6 or 7 stages. I have no problem with having some 1-gun speed stages... it's just a necessary evil. The "long" stages just need to be slightly adjusted to make sure they fit in the 100 second stages.

We will tweak things a little here and there, but I think for the most part, we're pretty darn close when you start weighing the pluses and minuses.

Now as far as new shooters go... I make it a point, as do most of us, to encourage and be as helpful as possible to new shooters.

That being said... par times discouraging new shooters? I'm sorry, but give me a break. This is 3-Gun... it's SUPPOSED to be tough. I've never met a 3-Gunner that didn't fall on his face at least once when he was new. It's kind of like a right of passage. I mean, what do you want it to be... easy? Come naturally to you? Few if any people are so lucky to just be born so talented. If someones ego is so fragile that they won't come back after timing out- even if it happened on every stage, then I'd be really surprised that they came out and risked failure in the first place... especially at a game that is so notoriously challenging. And that's why I like it, and that's why most people like it, and it's what keeps us coming back... that's why it's fun... because it's a rush knowing that total disaster might be just around the corner. There are just so many things that can go wrong after the buzzer goes off.
Either come out with your gear worked out before you drop the hammer on your 1st stage, or come out and fall on your face- which isn't a totally bad option, actually. Doing so is a great way to gather the necesarry intel to take back with you, so you can be more prepared the next time.

 

[GarandMD]

Well spoken Ryan. Timing out in 3-gun is indeed better than no 3-gun at all!!!

 

[rz317]

Scores are up!

Fellow 3-Gun types,

Results from Sunday's match at Wildcat have been posted on IndianaMultigun.com.

Thanks again to all those involved.

See you all at ACC on May 13 for the next INMG Series event.

RZ

 

[midget]

From a somewhat outside perspective, I think you guys need to start doing pre-registration at least a week in advance of the match. That way you guys have enough time to adjust planning/stage design before the match to accomidate the number of shooters coming..

 

[rz317]

From a somewhat outside perspective, I think you guys need to start doing pre-registration at least a week in advance of the match. That way you guys have enough time to adjust planning/stage design before the match to accomidate the number of shooters coming..

Rather than having to monitor all of that, I think we'll just assume we might have 100 shooters, and base the match plan around that number. Done.

RZ

 

[nipplehead]

Seriously i think you should make the par times shorter. The guys that ran out of time..really its mercy killing @ that point. If it cause you gun is malfunctioning, or your not zeroed right..obviously there is a problem that needs to be corrected ...these issues need to be worked out before the match. I guarantee those that were stopped will fix these problems before the next match...which is better for them and the fellow shooters that did their home work ahead of time.

These are big matches we need to run people through fast or really dummy down the stages . Match day is not the time to find out you have a single shot shotgun...and spend 5 minutes on a 30 second stage. Shorter par times..and I bet everyones stuff will suddenly work better...think about it!!!