Instructors limiting gear/equipment choices??

[jlw]

If the student agreed to the sight change, what's the issue?

 

[2A_Tom]

It sounds like the trainer thought he could do better with standard sights and he most likely did.

After all that is what you want a trainer to do, right?

 

[Brad69]

You guys are making me all nervous I have a class next week.
I hope the Instructor doesn’t want to change the sights on my Remington R51 or complain about my Serpa shoulder holster?

 

[2A_Tom]

What class?

 

[Dead Duck]

You guys are making me all nervous I have a class next week.
I hope the Instructor doesn’t want to change the sights on my Remington R51 or complain about my Serpa shoulder holster?

During classroom time, there was an instructor on the west coast that chewed out a student because his gun in his shoulder holster was sweeping the people sitting behind him but didn't care about the rest of the hip holsters in class that were aiming at the full classrooms downstairs below them.





....oh... and enjoy your class.

 

[Brad69]

Defensive Concepts 1&2

 

[2A_Tom]

I will see you in the afternoon class.

 

[Dead Duck]

You guys need to rip your sights off before class....... just to be safe.

 

[cedartop]

During classroom time, there was an instructor on the west coast that chewed out a student because his gun in his shoulder holster was sweeping the people sitting behind him but didn't care about the rest of the hip holsters in class that were aiming at the full classrooms downstairs below them.





....oh... and enjoy your class.

Not sure if that is supposed to be in purple or not. I can't think of a class I have been to off hand that would have allowed a shoulder holster in the live fire portion. I did however attend a rifle class once where the people behind me on the line were scared of my holstered handgun because it was pointed their direction when I was prone.

 

[2A_Tom]

There were people behind you when you were prone? That would bother me too.

 

[churchmouse]

If the student agreed to the sight change, what's the issue?

If he did then no issues. That was not the way the OP stated it 1st post.

 

[Dead Duck]

There were people behind you when you were prone? That would bother me too.

Especially if he was wearing some Daisy Dukes.
Speaking of..... did you know that Denim Thongs is a thing now?

 

[Brad69]

Somewhere around 2009 or so the Army banned shoulder holsters that were horizontal vertical ones were fine.
The horizontal holsters were open ended so if you were behind somebody you were looking at the barrel.
The powers that be banned them because of the danger of a ND/AD. It was perfectly ok for me to have 4 Frag grenades a flash bang ect. M4 with about 10 mags knife ect.
I have to carry M9 in any configuration but a horizontal shoulder holster its too dangerous.

It would be like laying your loaded weapon on an X-ray machine before boarding a flight.
Or in the announcement on the flight you cannot have a shotgun with a barrel less than 16 inches.

 

[MCgrease08]

Defensive Concepts 1&2

Well we already know how the instructor feels about Big Dots.

 

[2A_Tom]

That's Coach and BBI.

 

[MCgrease08]

That's Coach and BBI.

I know.

 

[bwframe]

... I did however attend a rifle class once where the people behind me on the line were scared of my holstered handgun because it was pointed their direction when I was prone.

There were people behind you when you were prone? That would bother me too.

A properly holstered handgun isn't "pointed" at anything. It is securely encased. I'm awful glad the folks I run with understand holsters and how they work.

On the OP, doesn't Vickers sell his own branded sights?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You guys are making me all nervous I have a class next week.
I hope the Instructor doesn’t want to change the sights on my Remington R51 or complain about my Serpa shoulder holster?

On a serious note, as long as they are safe with it people can use whatever they want in my class. I prefer they carry what and how they do the majority of the time. My class is not a fundamentals class and isn't geared toward improving your underlying technical skill, although you may get some coaching in that regard.

 

[jlw]

If he did then no issues. That was not the way the OP stated it 1st post.

What about post #7?

 

[Coach]

There are a number of issues and attitudes going on these days on INGO and this thread that give me pause.

I agree with the post if the student agreed then what is the issue?
Secondly there is no one in the class or on the line more responsible for safety than the instructor. Everyone there has some responsibility and accountability, but the guy or gal making it go has the most. So this attitude about that an instructor cannot tell me what to do with my gear and my habits that seems to underline this an other threads I do not understand. If there are any gear requirements then they should be stated in advance. Most people do not read the directions or let alone follow them. Like showing up with one magazine and then being unhappy about not being able to get all of the drills in, and three magazines were a minimum.

I would never alter or insist a sight system be altered in a class. If it sucks. You brought it deal with it.

AIWB or serpa holsters do not scare me and I do not prohibit them from class. A horizontal shoulder holster is not ok. A vertical one I can live with if the shooter is safe. The shooter being safe is a big variable that can change many or all situations in class. Last week in a Well Armed Woman session I was teaching a lady used a vertical shoulder holster. It went fine.

Why bother taking a class or getting instruction if you are going to ignore the instructor? That instructor most likely has a vast experience shooting and running the line and years of observation watching folks shoot, learn and function in the context that you are interested. Why would you ignore that and default to the "muh rights" mindset?

When I teach a defensive pistol class I insist that clients use a 9mm or large caliber. I have come to the conclusion that is the best practice. Anyone is free to carry whatever they want, but training would have to be done someplace else. If I allow those small calibers in my class I am condoning them as acceptable, and I do not believe that they are. I got some hate email from one man and a follow up angry phone call about it one time. Because his wife should be allowed to take my class with her Glock 42. The 9mm requirement was clear up front.

As far as Defensive Concepts 1 and 2 next week. We will not be changing and sights. We had had people in the past shoot 4 to 5 scenarios before they managed to hit the target. Which means they lacked the skill that is required in the course description, and had inadequate gear, and had paid not attention to the instruction in the early portion of the class on shooting. They had arrived late. The person left no better than when they came. Probably bad instruction.

I wish a number of people on here and on the planet would calm down and take good instruction in the manner that it is intended. As an honest effort to help people get better. If an instructor does not mesh with your views go somewhere else.