Job woes

[rhino]

JT and rhino you seem like stand up individuals that got a raw deal. I know it’s tough but hang in there. If I had a company that could use the skills and apparent dedication you can offer I would hire you both but unfortunately I don’t.

Anyway I just wanted to offer a few words of encouragement. I know it doesn’t pay the bills but maybe it helps in some small way to know there are people that care about your plight.

God bless.

Thank you very much, sir! I appreciate the support.

 

[rhino]

Minnesota is a darn sight more appealing than Hindustan, though not by much.

The key is that we were not offered an option to relocate with our jobs, so the end result was the same as outsourcing. I know a couple of people applied for new jobs there (one was hired and moved before the layoff), but in general it was not a situation where we could just choose to move and keep our job or even a job. You probably understand that, but I'm adding content to the conversation!

 

[rhino]

Sorry to hear that for both of you. Are you and rhino both in IT? Have you thought about looking into Information Security? A lot of times someone very familiar with infrastructure, development or other areas of IT can transition to better than entry level InfoSec and do reasonably well. It's a growing field and the top end pay is very nice. You may have to start out at a lower salary than you currently make, but if you work hard you can move up reasonably well. I had 16 years of infrastructure support when I got into InfoSec back in 2012 and I've gone from just over $50k/yr to just under $90k/yr in about 6 years. I fully expect to be over $100k/yr in the next couple of years and I've seen salaries in this field in the $125k-$160k range. Something to consider.

I am not in IT, although some of what I have done touches the margins of the kind of stuff some IT people do (supporting the users of a specific online application). You make excellent points about the opportunities available now and likely in the future. It never hurts to learn as much about IT as you can, regardless of your career or job functions.

I'm am always re-assessing my direction in life. Right now I'm heading toward applied statistics and data analysis (thus all of the math courses I am re-taking in order to prepare), but I no longer etch my tracks in stone. I'm in a catch-22 right now too. I have time to complete an Applied Statistics MS or certificate program because I am only working part time, but since I am only working part time, I don't have the money to pay for it (or enough for the rest of life as it stands now). I will work it out, though.

 

[JTScribe]

Sorry to hear that for both of you. Are you and rhino both in IT? Have you thought about looking into Information Security? A lot of times someone very familiar with infrastructure, development or other areas of IT can transition to better than entry level InfoSec and do reasonably well. It's a growing field and the top end pay is very nice. You may have to start out at a lower salary than you currently make, but if you work hard you can move up reasonably well. I had 16 years of infrastructure support when I got into InfoSec back in 2012 and I've gone from just over $50k/yr to just under $90k/yr in about 6 years. I fully expect to be over $100k/yr in the next couple of years and I've seen salaries in this field in the $125k-$160k range. Something to consider.

Interesting.

One of the more galling aspects of this whole thing is, we went 8 years without pay increases "to keep the company alive" and were told that once things turned around, we'd see the benefit. Not so much. In retrospect, I'd have probably been better off if I'd told them to shove their pay freeze and moved on back then. Alas.

But how that aligns more with your post, I just crossed the 50K mark. So it might not be as a big pay cut to go into InfoSec as it would seem. I do wish I'd taken the time to get the stamp basic certs like my A+ and Network+, but I got a jaundiced view of certs after the fourth or fifth time I made a service call to a client account where the MCSA/CNE couldn't figure out a basic TCP/IP issue. I know the stuff, just don't necessarily have the piece of paper.

 

[White Squirrel]

JT and Rhino, I certainly can sympathize with both of you. I spent 35 years with one company and got RIFed when I was 59 years old. I got a six month severence package. Spent four months looking and then started working a couple of temp jobs because I was getting really scared at being unemployed for so long even though I was still getting a paycheck.

I started a new full-time job on the day my severance ran out. Of course, the new job was at a 35% reduction over what I had been making. We adjusted and adapted. While I have never been happy with the "pay cut", I absolutely enjoy what I have been doing for the last six years.

I plan on working one more year and and formally retiring, although I have a couple of opportunities on the horizion to work two days/week that I may pursue.

I wish you both all the best in your searches and look forward to seeing the good news when something comes through for you.

 

[rhino]

JT and Rhino, I certainly can sympathize with both of you. I spent 35 years with one company and got RIFed when I was 59 years old. I got a six month severence package. Spent four months looking and then started working a couple of temp jobs because I was getting really scared at being unemployed for so long even though I was still getting a paycheck.

I started a new full-time job on the day my severance ran out. Of course, the new job was at a 35% reduction over what I had been making. We adjusted and adapted. While I have never been happy with the "pay cut", I absolutely enjoy what I have been doing for the last six years.

I plan on working one more year and and formally retiring, although I have a couple of opportunities on the horizion to work two days/week that I may pursue.

I wish you both all the best in your searches and look forward to seeing the good news when something comes through for you.

Thanks for the support! Your story is a good reminder that things can work out.

When our layoffs were first announced, I discussed my options with my boss (she is an amazing leader, supervisor, and lead-from-the-front boss), who suggested that focus on project management positions. It also seemed then like it would be unlikely that I'd have to take a pay cut (especially since my compensation for what I was doing was modest). As the search continues, the only positions for which I am being considered by employers are at significantly lower pay rates. The best so far (didn't get the job, by the way) would have been more than 1/3 pay cut from my previous salary. Of course, it's silly to think in those terms when right now it wouldn't be any kind of cut at all and the longer it goes, the less I'm worried about trying to satisfy my former financial obligations because I have to focus solely on getting something that 1) I can do, and 2) will pay the bills I can't eliminate.

 

[BugI02]

JTS and rhino, don't look off field positions in technology. Utility companies often have tech positions as field techs, field instrumentation techs etc that require IT skills. It helps if you can also trouble shoot electronic instrumentation but that's not really that hard. Do either of you have basic electronics skills?

I also know some peeps who are happily making book in specialized measurement technology - there are a number of companies that sell, install and maintain measurement devices such as truck scales, insustrial scales and laboratory scales

Brechbuler[spelling] comes to mind over here, not sure how widespread they are. The job does require a lot of travel/overtime but usually home almost every night

 

[JTScribe]

JTS and rhino, don't look off field positions in technology. Utility companies often have tech positions as field techs, field instrumentation techs etc that require IT skills. It helps if you can also trouble shoot electronic instrumentation but that's not really that hard. Do either of you have basic electronics skills?

I also know some peeps who are happily making book in specialized measurement technology - there are a number of companies that sell, install and maintain measurement devices such as truck scales, insustrial scales and laboratory scales

Brechbuler[spelling] comes to mind over here, not sure how widespread they are. The job does require a lot of travel/overtime but usually home almost every night

Oh, sure, big part of my job involved troubleshooting circuit boards. We didn't do much repair in the field, but I know my way around a soldering iron and a Fluke.

 

[phylodog]

If you are someone who has responsibilities that no one else does, put in your two weeks notice tomorrow. If they ask why tell them you are branching out on your own as a consultant. If they want to hire you back until they train someone else, drain them dry as you do it to buy you some breathing room to find something new.

 

[IndyDave1776]

If you are someone who has responsibilities that no one else does, put in your two weeks notice tomorrow. If they ask why tell them you are branching out on your own as a consultant. If they want to hire you back until they train someone else, drain them dry as you do it to buy you some breathing room to find something new.

The way you think is awesome!

 

[edporch]

If ordered to train somebody, give them enough of the basics to look good to management, but NEVER give the trainee that extra knowledge that's not in the book you gained by years of experience that makes you the best.

 

[churchmouse]

If ordered to train somebody, give them enough of the basics to look good to management, but NEVER give the trainee that extra knowledge that's not in the book you gained by years of experience that makes you the best.

Bingo. Unless you follow Phylo's idea.

 

[rhino]

JTS and rhino, don't look off field positions in technology. Utility companies often have tech positions as field techs, field instrumentation techs etc that require IT skills. It helps if you can also trouble shoot electronic instrumentation but that's not really that hard. Do either of you have basic electronics skills?

I also know some peeps who are happily making book in specialized measurement technology - there are a number of companies that sell, install and maintain measurement devices such as truck scales, insustrial scales and laboratory scales

Brechbuler[spelling] comes to mind over here, not sure how widespread they are. The job does require a lot of travel/overtime but usually home almost every night

My electronics skills end at being able to record a show on the Hopper. I am also limited physically, so most field work is beyond my capability. Travel is a huge problem for me and airline travel is next to impossible.

 

[rhino]

If ordered to train somebody, give them enough of the basics to look good to management, but NEVER give the trainee that extra knowledge that's not in the book you gained by years of experience that makes you the best.

Hah! I had to train my replacement or else quit early and forfeit the meager severance package I received. The best part was, as I was training him he seemed to be getting it and had very few questions. Then he'd go behind my back to my boss asking her to train him because I wasn't doing it. It was both sad and comical, but he is that company's problem and not mine.

 

[wtburnette]

Interesting.

One of the more galling aspects of this whole thing is, we went 8 years without pay increases "to keep the company alive" and were told that once things turned around, we'd see the benefit. Not so much. In retrospect, I'd have probably been better off if I'd told them to shove their pay freeze and moved on back then. Alas.

But how that aligns more with your post, I just crossed the 50K mark. So it might not be as a big pay cut to go into InfoSec as it would seem. I do wish I'd taken the time to get the stamp basic certs like my A+ and Network+, but I got a jaundiced view of certs after the fourth or fifth time I made a service call to a client account where the MCSA/CNE couldn't figure out a basic TCP/IP issue. I know the stuff, just don't necessarily have the piece of paper.

Getting Network+ and Security+ might not be a bad idea, if you can do so. Both would give you basics that you would need in pretty much any InfoSec entry level position. Even if you can't take the tests, get the material into yourself with free YouTube or other training. Vulnerability Management, Third Party / Vendor Risk and Identity & Access Management are good places to start in InfoSec. If you find a Cyber Security position that's entry level, try that as well. That is the "hot" position for InfoSec. The downside is that it's operations based and you'll likely deal with tickets and work on call. I work for IU Health and my organization, Anthem, Lilly, Navient and Sally Mae are some of the big names for InfoSec. Check job openings on LinkedIn, as well as Glass Door and other resources. We've hired people with nothing more than a college degree, albeit in the mid-40's. I'm really glad I switched from IT Support over to InfoSec. I started out in Vulnerability Management at Anthem and when they didn't promote me after a couple of years, I moved to Vendor Risk. After being there close to 5 years, I moved to IU Health for a promotion and the challenge of helping to start their program fresh, as the previous team had all been let go. That was a bit nerve wracking, but I'm glad I took the chance. My pay and benefits are decent, I have challenging work and a flexible schedule. It also helps that I enjoy my work and see the benefit I bring to the company. Some companies even let you work from home. I used to work from home 2 days a week, though we went down to only one day a week recently. Still, it's a nice benefit that I couldn't have done working operations based IT. Good luck and let me know if I can help in any way.

 

[KLB]

Getting Network+ and Security+ might not be a bad idea, if you can do so. Both would give you basics that you would need in pretty much any InfoSec entry level position. Even if you can't take the tests, get the material into yourself with free YouTube or other training. Vulnerability Management, Third Party / Vendor Risk and Identity & Access Management are good places to start in InfoSec. If you find a Cyber Security position that's entry level, try that as well. That is the "hot" position for InfoSec. The downside is that it's operations based and you'll likely deal with tickets and work on call. I work for IU Health and my organization, Anthem, Lilly, Navient and Sally Mae are some of the big names for InfoSec. Check job openings on LinkedIn, as well as Glass Door and other resources. We've hired people with nothing more than a college degree, albeit in the mid-40's. I'm really glad I switched from IT Support over to InfoSec. I started out in Vulnerability Management at Anthem and when they didn't promote me after a couple of years, I moved to Vendor Risk. After being there close to 5 years, I moved to IU Health for a promotion and the challenge of helping to start their program fresh, as the previous team had all been let go. That was a bit nerve wracking, but I'm glad I took the chance. My pay and benefits are decent, I have challenging work and a flexible schedule. It also helps that I enjoy my work and see the benefit I bring to the company. Some companies even let you work from home. I used to work from home 2 days a week, though we went down to only one day a week recently. Still, it's a nice benefit that I couldn't have done working operations based IT. Good luck and let me know if I can help in any way.

Why couldn't you work from home in operations?

 

[edporch]

Bingo. Unless you follow Phylo's idea.

I agree.
But in some cases, they offer a generous severance package IF you train your replacement, but you get NOTHING if you refuse.
So why not get the satisfaction of doing a bit of "scorched earth" job on them and getting your severance too?

I had a job like this in another life when I was doing medical electronics.
Back in circa 1989, I got offered $10,000 (almost $21,000 in today's dollars) cash to leave on good terms.

The new company taking over practiced "credentialism".
I'd worked my way up to research & development before they came.
Told me that because I didn't have a university Computer Science degree, I couldn't continue writing assembly code, and because I didn't have a university Electrical Engineering degree I could do any more design work.
I'd already PROVEN myself at both.

So I took the $10,000 cash.

Then afterward, my old friends who remained in management had me work for them as an independent contractor at $22 an hour ($43 an hour in today's dollars) writing assembly code at my house for them.

 

[Leadeye]

Going to work for your company's customers might be an option, it worked out for me.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I agree.
But in some cases, they offer a generous severance package IF you train your replacement, but you get NOTHING if you refuse.
So why not get the satisfaction of doing a bit of "scorched earth" job on them and getting your severance too?

I had a job like this in another life when I was doing medical electronics.
Back in circa 1989, I got offered $10,000 (almost $21,000 in today's dollars) cash to leave on good terms.

The new company taking over practiced "credentialism".
I'd worked my way up to research & development before they came.
Told me that because I didn't have a university Computer Science degree, I couldn't continue writing assembly code, and because I didn't have a university Electrical Engineering degree I could do any more design work.
I'd already PROVEN myself at both.

So I took the $10,000 cash.

Then afterward, my old friends who remained in management had me work for them as an independent contractor at $22 an hour ($43 an hour in today's dollars) writing assembly code at my house for them.

Writing Assembler takes BALs... (see what I did there?)

 

[dprimm]

The contractor idea is great except I don't think you can claim unemployment. I see the contractor thing done even w welders. Seriously looo at it