Kenya Mall Assault--could/will it happen here?

[LEaSH]

Yup. I'm going to email Simon Malls with my concerns and what they plan on doing about it.

I'm sure they'll have no problem increasing their security expense x50.

I'll be sure to cc their largest tenants as well.

aww dang. this doesn't allow for cc, but I let them know that I'll be contacting the department stores also.

https://www.simon.com/about_simon/contact_spg/default.aspx

 

[Expat]

I hope that Royal Marine faces some stiff repercussions for violating the rules like that. It's just luck that someone wasn't hurt or killed by his illegal gun. Perhaps those moms demanding action should look into this and organize a boycott.

I find it surprising that we haven't seen some of these here already. I partly agree with Blackhawk about the Midwest with a couple of exceptions. The Mall of America would have the sort of symbolism that would appeal to terrorists plus it would have some other advantage having to do with a fairly close community... Then you have Chicago where basically no law abiding citizens are currently armed...

 

[BogWalker]

Is there a special law that says it's illegal to carry in malls, or is it like any other private business and "No Guns" signs carry no legal weight in the state of Indiana? If the worst they can do is tell me to leave I'm going to CC no matter what the darn sign says. Whole point is nobody knows you have the gun anyways, so how will they be the wiser?

 

[Expat]

Is there a special law that says it's illegal to carry in malls, or is it like any other private business and "No Guns" signs carry no legal weight in the state of Indiana? If the worst they can do is tell me to leave I'm going to CC no matter what the darn sign says. Whole point is nobody knows you have the gun anyways, so how will they be the wiser?

Yep, that's why I always carry at the mall.

 

[jedi]

Is there a special law that says it's illegal to carry in malls, or is it like any other private business and "No Guns" signs carry no legal weight in the state of Indiana? If the worst they can do is tell me to leave I'm going to CC no matter what the darn sign says. Whole point is nobody knows you have the gun anyways, so how will they be the wiser?

99% of signs in Indiana have no weight of law behind them.
however if the biz sees your gun and they ask you to leave you have to leave or else you are treaspassing and can be arrested for that. provided they call the police on you and have told you to leave.

in cases like this wear its an armed force with rifles not sure your handgun is going to make a difference.
makes me think one is better off just carrying a rifle when going shopping or just buy online.

 

[printcraft]

Don't forget....We've always got Gecko45!

He seems to be strangely prophetic in his ideas given the events of late.

 

[TheRude1]

This type of attack has been a very real possibility since Beslan.

Beslan was the first thing that came to my mind also, glad to see I'm not the only one that seen that and remembers it ! Many differences and similarity's.

This is jacked up like channel 4 on Sunday!

 

[.45 Dave]

Can it happen here? Sure.
Will it happen here (by foreign terrorist)? Probably not.
Why?

The object of terrorism is fear on a population and to force the .gov to change.
Bin Laden already did that to the USA. Look at the USA pre Bin Laden attacks (The Cole, World Trade Center Bombing I, 9/11 attack) and look at it now.
American is on a destructive path and it's freedoms/liberties stripped via the Patriot Act.
Bin Landen may be dead but his war against the infields is winning.

More over terrorist want big targets or importance. The cole ship was a nice 'big' military target. It showed the world that the mighty beast (the USA) could be hurt with a tiny boat. One small boat took out a war ship. Look at 9/11 and the mess that made both physically and emotionally to the nation.

Would an attack on American mall's make sense at this point? Meh... what does it gain for the terrorist? Fear on the American people? OK but will it change foreign policy? Perhaps not.

I guess I would ask what did the attack on a Kenyan mall gain for the terrorists? I know there is talk that Kenya was involved in a crackdown on Somalia terrorists and in some way this was a "payback" situation, but then America is also after terrorists...and they haven't gotten even for Bin Laden yet or the other jihadists we've taken out with drones. I'm not so sure changing foreign policy is the agenda. I think it's more like a blood feud. International policy is just the convenient talking point.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

He seems to be strangely prophetic in his ideas given the events of late.

Some men are just born ahead of their time...

 

[dsol]

I havent bothered to look, but I would wager to guess that Kenya has a lot of restrictions on gun ownership by the masses. Probably why the president hasn't made more of a big deal about the the mall shooting in his home country. He can't point the finger at how easy those evil assault weapons were to buy at Kenyan gun shows and if he did say something, it would just prove the point that it can easily happen when gun laws are as strict there as he wants them to be here.

Rambling... I need moar coffee

 

[Expat]

Kenya mall massacre enabled by ?restrictive? gun laws - National gun rights | Examiner.com

 

[jedi]

I guess I would ask what did the attack on a Kenyan mall gain for the terrorists? I know there is talk that Kenya was involved in a crackdown on Somalia terrorists and in some way this was a "payback" situation, but then America is also after terrorists...and they haven't gotten even for Bin Laden yet or the other jihadists we've taken out with drones. I'm not so sure changing foreign policy is the agenda. I think it's more like a blood feud. International policy is just the convenient talking point.

Don't confuse the 2 events in our thread.

real event = kenyan mall attack = not an act of terror to casue fear but more an act to clean the area of infidels. The attackers targeted **ONLY** non-muslims. They let muslims leave the area as the attackers continued to find new targets. So this is not an act of lets cause fear. This is an act of talking the fight to the non-muslims and to show them that they are not safe in Kenya, leave!

fake event = attack on USA mall = an act of terror (assuming it's foreign attackers) to indeed strike fear into the US massives and show them they are no longer safe in their homeland.

Bin Laden was just one of many leaders in the 'holy war'. They have been fighting this 'holy war' for much longer than we have been a nation. Leaders come and go for them as they die for what they believe in. It was a lose for them but not a major lose like we (westerners) think. They operate independently of one another for the most part all with the same common goal: death to the infields. All Bin Laden did was provide a central location to get training and to toss ideas out for possible targets. Killing him has not stopped the 'holy war' has it?

You can't fight an idea with bullets/tanks/arms unless you are willing to destroy everyone who has that idea, may have that idea and eradicate that idea.
The US is not willing to do that (heck no SANE country would) and even if you could there is no guarantee of doing it.

I havent bothered to look, but I would wager to guess that Kenya has a lot of restrictions on gun ownership by the masses. Probably why the president hasn't made more of a big deal about the the mall shooting in his home country. He can't point the finger at how easy those evil assault weapons were to buy at Kenyan gun shows and if he did say something, it would just prove the point that it can easily happen when gun laws are as strict there as he wants them to be here.

Rambling... I need moar coffee

My understanding from the limited reading I have done on this topic/event is that the attackers were/are from Somalia. Firearms flow like water in that part of the world. They probably brought their weapons from across the border.

 

[.45 Dave]

Don't confuse the 2 events in our thread.

real event = kenyan mall attack = not an act of terror to casue fear but more an act to clean the area of infidels. The attackers targeted **ONLY** non-muslims. They let muslims leave the area as the attackers continued to find new targets. So this is not an act of lets cause fear. This is an act of talking the fight to the non-muslims and to show them that they are not safe in Kenya, leave!

fake event = attack on USA mall = an act of terror (assuming it's foreign attackers) to indeed strike fear into the US massives and show them they are no longer safe in their homeland.

Bin Laden was just one of many leaders in the 'holy war'. They have been fighting this 'holy war' for much longer than we have been a nation. Leaders come and go for them as they die for what they believe in. It was a lose for them but not a major lose like we (westerners) think. They operate independently of one another for the most part all with the same common goal: death to the infields. All Bin Laden did was provide a central location to get training and to toss ideas out for possible targets. Killing him has not stopped the 'holy war' has it?

You can't fight an idea with bullets/tanks/arms unless you are willing to destroy everyone who has that idea, may have that idea and eradicate that idea.
The US is not willing to do that (heck no SANE country would) and even if you could there is no guarantee of doing it.



My understanding from the limited reading I have done on this topic/event is that the attackers were/are from Somalia. Firearms flow like water in that part of the world. They probably brought their weapons from across the border.

All good points Jedi.
I see that the Mall of America has stated it will beef up security and apparently has a police substation in the mall. Probably hired a few more Paul Blarts as well. Thanks for the response.

 

[jedi]

I wonder and we probably will never know if they used the Mall of America as a 'training place' and/or to get a feel for the place they attacked?
Or if they just went in after scoping it out?

Mall of America can add all the security they want in a week or so they will drop it.
Case in point a simon's mall up here (South Lake Mall) had an indoor shooting earlier this year. Gang related shooting where ijrc 1 wounded and the running all over the place. In any case for the week after the event the local PD has active patrols in the mall with K-9 units and 4 to 5 man squads. Two weeks after the event it's back to normal in terms of security.

 

[glockednlocked]

GFT.......I pray to God this never happens here but if it does let the sheep run and baa. As for me and mine we pray for strength and resolve in any time of danger that we do what is right.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

You can't fight an idea with bullets/tanks/arms unless you are willing to destroy everyone who has that idea, may have that idea and eradicate that idea.

^^^ that right there. Next to impossible to fight that kind of fanaticism. Most westerners are too civilized for the kind of brutality it would take to save themselves from the evil that is islam..

 

[jedi]

^^^ that right there. Next to impossible to fight that kind of fanaticism. Most westerners are too civilized for the kind of brutality it would take to save themselves from the evil that is islam..

Don't forget you need to eradicate that idea as well. (ie. change history).
Even if one manages to destroy/kill every man, women, child with that idea one still has to remove that idea from world history.
I doubt very much that is possible without an E.L.E. occuring.
Perhaps al 1984 style of history revision but even then someone still knows/has the idea.

 

[.45 Dave]

You can't really kill ideas. For example say you really hate the telephone (I do so I have thought through this scenario) and you somehow invent a time machine to go back and kill Alexander Graham Bell before he starts tinkering. Very soon when you arrive back here you find someone else went and invented it so off you go again into the past and so on ad infinitum. Problem is, and it applies to what Jedi is talking about, someone else will always come up with the same idea.
The real problem is not in the idea but how it is interpreted by the thinker and following thinkers. Any idea, no matter what it's context is in the time it is thought, can be turned to evil usage. An idea is subject to the intentions of the thinker and, while I personally believe Islam to be a fundamentally flawed religious system, the real danger is that it is being used as a political system today. And any political system lends itself very easily to the mind of an evil person as a means to power. Until hearts are changed all ideas, politics are subject to evil and deadly usage just as a gun, for example, can be used to save lives or take them. In the end, ideas are merely tools to build with or to tear down. I know this is all very existential and sorry about that but just take it as my opinion.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Lafayette Square Mall and its environs get shot up on a semi-regular basis?

 

[.45 Dave]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Lafayette Square Mall and its environs get shot up on a semi-regular basis?

Possibly. I really haven't heard much about it myself but the difference is no specific group religious or political has been targeted at the mall for wholesale slaughter.
If such a thing happened I'm fairly sure even the biased ho-hum media would have to report it. Mostly in this country so far all we've had to worry about are thugs killing each other in public places or the occasional maniac looking for unarmed citizens to slaughter. That always could change though.