Kroger is now off my list of stores

[NKBJ]

The Kroger card is all about harvesting data for resale. Always has been.

 

[edporch]

I'm not ridiculing you, but I am curious if you guys that are worried about your data pay cash for everything? Otherwise, your efforts are for naught. I used to be concerned about my data, but eventually realized how hopeless it is.

A fair question.
Paying with a credit card doesn't give the store a load of personal info like a driver's license does.

 

[MRockwell]

So when they scan your information on the DL, do they have a privacy policy that you read and agree to?
It seems like anywhere on the internet that you input your information, you have to agree to their privacy policy, so why do they not have one at this point of sale?

Another way to possibly get around this is to go through the regular check-out lane, the one with the youngest looking cashier. They then have to get a person that is old enough to sell beer, and that person will get you through pretty fast because the time they are doing that is less time they are ringing up sales at their own station.

I P.O.'d a self-checkout lady at Meijer several months ago by not letting her scan my D.L. She said she was trained to do that, and was I wanting to get her in trouble?!. I just replied that I had spoken with the store manager and he said it was not necessary. And as Cameramonkey has mentioned, she also had long nails that are not conducive to tapping a touchscreen. Haven't bought beer at Meijer since then.

 

[femurphy77]

Make a new barcode with only the name and birthday and stick it over the existing one. Or just have it return obscenities, i doubt it is verified anyway. If it scans, the register monkeys won't have a clue.

Nah, not original enough. Get one that is an advertisement for a gentlemen's club!

 

[femurphy77]

This does remind me of a similar "pre-technology" incident at a store one time. I had made a purchase and was paying with a check IIRC, (remember those?) the cashier asked for my SSN and I politely refused to provide it to her. I explained that it isn't to be used as an identifier as stated on the card and thusly I would not be providing it. She called for the manager and he and I discussed it at some length as I remember so in the interest of expediting the process finally asked if I'd be ok with letting them see my drivers license and providing that number. I agreed and handed over the DL, once he finished recording the information he wanted he smirked and told me that I wasn't near as smart as he was because he had just recorded my DL number which was in fact my SSN. I smirked back and said that although yes in many cases that would be true but I had specifically requested a DL specific number be issued to me since I didn't wish to share the SSN.

I thanked him for his concern and walked out laughing at him.

 

[chipbennett]

CMonkey, is not your SS number encoded in that info, also? SS numbers are included for licensing in Ohio, but you can request it not be displayed on the face of the card. But it is still encoded into the info strip and can be read by the popo and anybody with minimal software.

Also, were going to the high security license. No more creation at remote locations, they're all printed in one secure facility and mailed to the holder. If your license is similar, if its good enough to get you on a plane or across the Canadian border, it should be good enough on its face to serve as secure ID

**** 'em, find a beer specialty store (that will have a much better and more varied selection anyway)

Some airports (including IND) are now using ID (Real ID-compliant, I assume) scanners at security checkpoints, in lieu of showing both ID and boarding pass. So, A) there must be enough encoded data to associate the ID to valid boarding pass data, and b) I don't have the option of blocking the barcode on my ID to prevent unnecessary data mining by the likes of Kroger and Meijer.

 

[Denny347]

Sigh...the information embedded in the barcode is the SAME information on the front of the DL. Not sure what the controversy is. Federal and State laws prevent their access to anything more...no SSN etc. The barcode is a convenience.
Indiana Administrative Code:
240 IAC 5-2-10 Security; confidentialityAuthority: IC 10-11-2-10; IC 10-13-2-9; IC 10-13-2-10Affected: IC 10-13-2Sec. 10. (a) "System", as used in the security and confidentiality rules, means IDACS, NLETS, and/or NCIC terminals,equipment, and any and all data accessible from or stored therein.(b) Access, meaning the ability to obtain information from the system, shall be permitted only to criminal justice agenciesin the discharge oftheir official mandated responsibilities, and those agencies asrequired bystate and/or federal enabling authority.Release of Indiana bureau of motor vehicles data to noncriminal justice agencies may occur when it is determined to be in the bestinterest of law enforcement/criminal justice to do so. Agencies that shall be permitted access to SYSTEM data include thefollowing1) Police forces and departments at all governmental levels (including private college and railroad police departments asauthorized by Indiana Code) that are responsible for enforcement of general criminal laws.(2) Prosecutive agencies and departments at all governmental levels.(3) Courts at all governmental levels with a criminal or equivalent jurisdiction.(4) Correction departments at all governmental levels, including corrective institutions and probation departments.(5) Parole commissions and agencies at all governmental levels.(6) Agencies at all governmental levels which have as a principal function the collection and provision of fingerprintidentification information.(7) Regional or local governmental organizations established pursuant to statute which collect and process criminal justiceinformation and whose policy and governing boards have, as a minimum, a majority composition of members representingcriminal justice agencies.(c) Approved noncriminal justice agencies may have access to SYSTEM data on a limited basis. "Limited basis" meansrestricted to only that data recommended through resolution by the IDACS committee and approved by the state policesuperintendent.(d) All computers, electronic switches, and manual terminals(including mobile data terminals/printers) interfaced with theSYSTEM computer for the exchange of SYSTEM data shall be under the management control of criminal justice agencies.Similarly, satellite computers and manual terminals accessing the SYSTEM shall be under the management control of a criminaljustice agency

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Sigh...the information embedded in the barcode is the SAME information on the front of the DL. Not sure what the controversy is. Federal and State laws prevent their access to anything more...no SSN etc. The barcode is a convenience.

So the argument remains... Does a grocery store need anything from the front of my DL stored on a database. I say 'no'. I don't need anyone knowing what I buy or how often I buy it.

With regards to policy/law... is there anything to say they aren't allowed to refuse a purchase if you refuse to surrender the info? Like someone mentioned before... we didn't sign an agreement or read a privacy policy.

Much like how you can't technically refuse a credit card purchase if someone doesn't also show their ID with the CC... since that goes against Visa/Master Card policies. A store would be breaking that agreement.

Can a store "policy" to scan DL override Indiana law on just providing proof of age for alcohol purchases? Is that even codified in the law?

 

[JettaKnight]

Are we just making the (reasonable) assumption that the information is being stored?

 

[Denny347]

There are a lot of assumptions being made here. Does anyone actually know what is stored? As a person who has been charged with investigating various crimes that have occurred at grocery stores, I've seen some data collected from rewards cards and the like and it is useless in determining ownership, I've tried. Sometimes they might store a last name and maybe a year of birth and email. If information is stored, it typically is severely truncated. Many businesses don't want to be responsible for storing sensitive info unless they absolutely have to.

 

[Birds Away]

There are a lot of assumptions being made here. Does anyone actually know what is stored? As a person who has been charged with investigating various crimes that have occurred at grocery stores, I've seen some data collected from rewards cards and the like and it is useless in determining ownership, I've tried. Sometimes they might store a last name and maybe a year of birth and email. If information is stored, it typically is severely truncated. Many businesses don't want to be responsible for storing sensitive info.

A classic Denny. Well done, sir.

 

[chipbennett]

Sigh...the information embedded in the barcode is the SAME information on the front of the DL. Not sure what the controversy is. Federal and State laws prevent their access to anything more...no SSN etc. The barcode is a convenience.

You're missing the point. There is a difference between visually reading and then manually keying in DOB from the front of a DL, and electronically bar-code scanning ALL of the embedded information in the DL, and electronically storing an unknown quantity of those data.

Those data are personally identifying, completely unneeded for the transaction, and are collected with no privacy policy published, much less signed/agreed to, by the customer, indicating what data are read, and what is done with those data - whether those data are stored, shared with third parties, etc..

It is a reasonable concern that, under such circumstances, such data may be retained by the store.

By contrast, a manually keyed-in DOB is reasonably assumed to be only DOB, and not the full breadth of data available on the front of the DL.

 

[Denny347]

A classic Denny. Well done, sir.

 

[femurphy77]

I soon as I saw a Denny347 response I knew the party was over. Speculation is ALWAYS so much more entertaining than fact!

 

[Denny347]

You're missing the point. There is a difference between visually reading and then manually keying in DOB from the front of a DL, and electronically bar-code scanning ALL of the embedded information in the DL, and electronically storing an unknown quantity of those data.

Again, we are assuming what info is being stored. ALL the info you are referring to is address, height, weight, hair, eye. If the address is your concern, then you might as well get a PO Box address for your DL since it is prominently displayed on your DL.

 

[Hop]

It sounds like we need to create a fake barcode sticker with bogus info just for use at these stores. This could be fun. Are there any legal reasons we can't apply a temporary sticker to the back of a DL?

 

[femurphy77]

It sounds like we need to create a fake barcode sticker with bogus info just for use at these stores. This could be fun. Are there any legal reasons we can't apply a temporary sticker to the back of a DL?

I'd guess no different than a temporary sticker on the front.

 

[chipbennett]

Again, we are assuming what info is being stored. ALL the info you are referring to is address, height, weight, hair, eye. If the address is your concern, then you might as well get a PO Box address for your DL since it is prominently displayed on your DL.

For those who are concerned about personally identifying information, given that retail stores don't (as far as I know) publish a data privacy policy, how can such people assume anything other than that all scannable information is scanned and retained?

As for me: I'm pretty much already plugged into the Matrix, the ship has sailed, the horse is out of the barn, can't stop the signal. So, I don't much worry about it anymore. But for those trying to maintain what they believe to be a modicum of privacy, their concerns are valid.

 

[rhino]

The Kroger card is all about harvesting data for resale. Always has been.

And it's a fair exchange because 1) I know about it, 2) I choose to provide my number at each transaction, 3) they compensate me with reduced prices on a lot things I buy, and 4) they compensate me with at least $36.75 in gasoline discount each month.

 

[WebSnyper]

For those who are concerned about personally identifying information, given that retail stores don't (as far as I know) publish a data privacy policy, how can such people assume anything other than that all scannable information is scanned and retained?

As for me: I'm pretty much already plugged into the Matrix, the ship has sailed, the horse is out of the barn, can't stop the signal. So, I don't much worry about it anymore. But for those trying to maintain what they believe to be a modicum of privacy, their concerns are valid.

This... without a privacy policy indicating how they use that specific data, one has to assume it is being stored and not in a protected method, etc.

Making the assumption that it is not being stored without something stating that is also just that... an assumption.

I'm checking this out now: https://www.kroger.com/topic/privacy-policy-7 it may or may not contain any answers on the specifics of scanned DLs.

Edit: Seems it does: https://www.kroger.com/topic/how-we-collect

How We Collect Your Information

There is some information that you voluntarily share with us.
This includes information used to register for our loyalty program or to create an account on our websites. For example:

• Name, address, phone and email
• Payment information
• Communication and shopping preferences
• An encrypted version of your password
• Driver’s license number for certain types of sales and for ID verification

We collect some information when you visit our stores, websites or use our mobile apps, or when you use our online services or view our online advertisements.
We may collect this information automatically and link it to other information we already know about you. For example, when you sign up for our loyalty program, we may associate your in-store shopping activity with your online activity when you engage with our websites or mobile apps. Additionally, when you are logged in to our websites or use our mobile apps, we may link the device IDs or types to your account.

This includes pages you visit on our websites, items you add to your online shopping list, coupons you download and redeem from us, and purchase information.
In addition, we may collect information when you use our mobile apps, including
device location (if you choose to turn this feature on).
If you choose to connect to our in-store wireless service, we may collect websites you visit and your mobile device identifier so you can automatically be connected.
Cookies, web beacons and other technology.

When you visit our websites, access our mobile apps or open one of our emails, we may automatically collect information about you using tracking technology, including:

• Internet Protocol address
• Unique device or user ID
• System and browser type
• Referring website address
• Content and pages you access on our websites or mobile apps
• Dates, times and locations when actions take place

We use this technology for system administration and troubleshooting, and to identify you so we can enhance your online experience.
Third-party technology.
We use third-party technology to better understand your online behavior. By doing so, we can present relevant content online and send you relevant emails.
Our Privacy Policy does not cover the use of cookies by others, including online tracking companies. As with all website owners, we do not have access or control over the cookies placed on your computer by other websites you may visit.
When you connect to one of our websites or mobile apps through a third party, we may collect information from their website. For example, if you choose to associate your social media identity with The Kroger Co., the site may provide us with certain information from your social media account.
This may include, without limitation:

• User ID
• Interactions with our posts
• Certain demographic information
• Other information shared with us based on your account settings

We may also gather information about you from other sources, including consumer research firms and public databases.
We provide links to third-party websites in order to provide additional goods, services or information to our Customers. Any information or Kroger-specific information, such as loyalty program data, you provide when accessing a third-party website is subject to that company’s privacy policy. Please know that The Kroger Co. is not responsible for information you provide directly to a third party. If you register for or use such third-party websites, both The Kroger Co. and the third party may receive information collected through the use of the websites, as described in the privacy policies on those websites."