Las Vegas Officer bodycam

[turnandshoot4]

I defy you or anyone else that isn't trained to Operator standards to so much as remember your own name in that situation. Those two were murder suspects, not jay walkers and they were shooting constantly. Go back and watch that again and take note of everything the guy is trying to do AT THE SAME TIME...and he does it! I don't see how you train a cop for that situation. Yeah you got range time, you got skid pad and road course time. But what he just did was your basic Hollywood SEAL team 6/ Delta Force movie ending and that is NOT what they train for. Thank god Michael Bay wasn't there or half the town would be exploded too.

Good points, Dane.

I am looking on as someone who trains regular folks and police. How can we all learn from this?

He reverted to his lowest level of mastered skills.

He has definitely mastered using the radio, driving, courage under fire, and having giant balls of steel!

 

[jlw]

I defy you or anyone else that isn't trained to Operator standards to so much as remember your own name in that situation. Those two were murder suspects, not jay walkers and they were shooting constantly. Go back and watch that again and take note of everything the guy is trying to do AT THE SAME TIME...and he does it! I don't see how you train a cop for that situation. Yeah you got range time, you got skid pad and road course time. But what he just did was your basic Hollywood SEAL team 6/ Delta Force movie ending and that is NOT what they train for. Thank god Michael Bay wasn't there or half the town would be exploded too.

I make NO claim as to being an Operator. I was a patrolman for most of my field career. Last week I went face to face with a fugitive armed robber/home invader in a vehicle take down. I saw my sights appropriately. I formulated and communicated thoughts, and controlled multiple suspects.

I gave the dude an A for effort. In my mind, that outweighs a LOT of error, and nothing that I have written about the dude should be taken as a negative.

 

[rhino]

That might be a good point but again can you actually put the level of stress in place during a simulation. That would be the issue. Firing in the confined space of the car. That pressure would be another hard thing to match.

It helps to have the windows down (or missing when you're using a junker for training) and to get your muzzle as close to the windshield as possible so that as much of the expanding gases go forward and out instead of reflecting a big pressure wave off of the windshield and back at you. That's especially true for a rifle.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

In all of this I understand the calling out of obvious mistakes. Could more training advance muscle memory in this scenario.....Mag change for sure. High speed pursuit under fire in traffic shooting through the window......how do you train for that.

You can't.

 

[churchmouse]

You can't.

Exactly.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

In all of this I understand the calling out of obvious mistakes. Could more training advance muscle memory in this scenario.....Mag change for sure. High speed pursuit under fire in traffic shooting through the window......how do you train for that.

Realistically, you aren't going to find a PD with the budget, time, and will to provide realistic training for this exact scenario, although small pieces of it are already incorporated. A mag change is a mag change, regardless. Sights, grip, and trigger press are same, regardless.

DSS or someone similar may have the resources and mission to do so, but I doubt anyone else is (and I'm not sure they do).

 

[Sylvain]

It looks like the officer did a great job.
No bystanders were shot, officer wasn't shot, one violent felon was neutralized on scene before he could harm bystanders; and the other arrested.
That's great police work in my opinion.
One other suspect was shot, arrested and taken to the hospital.
In many countries if you shoot over 30 times at the police they won't bother arresting the suspect.
It shows great professionalism and restrain to arrest that suspect and treat his injuries when he's no longer a threat.

That officer had to drive at high speed, shoot at a moving car, reaload his handgun and be on the radio at the same time.
Most people would screw up trying to do just one of those things at a time.

I'm curious if any of the rounds fired by the officer thru his windshield hit their target or not.
Rounds fired from inside a vehicle thru the windshield are deflected and go up.
But in that situation when people are shooting at you do you remember that you need to aim lower? Probably not unless you already shot thru glass before, even in that case you might forget.
It would also depend how far from the windshield the target is.

 

[devildog70]

It looks like the officer did a great job.
No bystanders were shot, officer wasn't shot, one violent felon was neutralized on scene before he could harm bystanders; and the other arrested.
That's great police work in my opinion.
One other suspect was shot, arrested and taken to the hospital.
In many countries if you shoot over 30 times at the police they won't bother arresting the suspect.
It shows great professionalism and restrain to arrest that suspect and treat his injuries when he's no longer a threat.

That officer had to drive at high speed, shoot at a moving car, reaload his handgun and be on the radio at the same time.
Most people would screw up trying to do just one of those things at a time.

I'm curious if any of the rounds fired by the officer thru his windshield hit their target or not.
Rounds fired from inside a vehicle thru the windshield are deflected and go up.
But in that situation when people are shooting at you do you remember that you need to aim lower? Probably not unless you already shot thru glass before, even in that case you might forget.
It would also depend how far from the windshield the target is.

The first volley of rounds were probably deflected some. After that, the windshield was ported. With things being closer than they appear on camera, I'd guess the majority of his rounds at least hit the vehicle. I got the impression from watching the video, that he definitely had an effect, based on the slow roll to an angled stop the vehicle had at the end.

 

[devildog70]

Realistically, you aren't going to find a PD with the budget, time, and will to provide realistic training for this exact scenario, although small pieces of it are already incorporated. A mag change is a mag change, regardless. Sights, grip, and trigger press are same, regardless.

DSS or someone similar may have the resources and mission to do so, but I doubt anyone else is (and I'm not sure they do).

There are a ton of classes out there that teach shooting from a vehicle, both singly and as a team. I'm not aware of any that teach it from a moving vehicle, since that has pretty much been frowned upon for LE, under the vast majority of circumstances, since the last of those Duke Boys retired. I know Centrifuge Training's VCQB class spends a ton of time shooting from both sides of the passenger compartment with both rifles and handguns. Not quite the same as doing it while juggling several other tasks, and driving, but there would at least be some overlap.

 

[kiddchaos]

Question: The officer had to shoot through his own windshield. How dangerous would that be to do?

 

[devildog70]

Question: The officer had to shoot through his own windshield. How dangerous would that be to do?

Negligible

 

[Fargo]

Question: The officer had to shoot through his own windshield. How dangerous would that be to do?

It is unholy loud for the person doing it, but I've never really had much glass come back. Strangely, IME it usually affects pistol bullets the opposite of the way that I would have expected. Rounds fired from inside the deflect slightly upward, while rounds coming through the windshield from the outside the deflect slightly downward.

 

[Sylvain]

Negligible

If you're doing that from a moving car at high speed the biggest risk would probably be crashing the car.
Especially if you have both hands on the gun and no hand on the steering wheel.

In that case it's probably pretty dangerous.

 

[Leadeye]

Many years ago the High Standard Model 10 was developed as an entry weapon and to allow one arm firing from a vehicle. IMHO still one of the best shotgun designs ever.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Especially if you have both hands on the gun and no hand on the steering wheel.

In that case it's probably pretty dangerous.

I guess you haven't perfected the art of steering with your knee.

 

[Fargo]

I guess you haven't perfected the art of steering with your knee.

Perhaps the French have never been introduced to the magic that is dual wielding a road pop and a CB microphone?

 

[rhino]

It is unholy loud for the person doing it, but I've never really had much glass come back. Strangely, IME it usually affects pistol bullets the opposite of the way that I would have expected. Rounds fired from inside the deflect slightly upward, while rounds coming through the windshield from the outside the deflect slightly downward.

Depends on a lot of factors including what you're shooting, how big the passenger compartment is, how close the muzzle is to the glass, how the windshield was made and how wall the lamination holds together, temperature,, blah blah.

I've seen the results of discharging a short barreled AR from inside a car for multiple rounds after which the shooter emerged dazed and with lot of tiny slivers of glass poking out of his face, torso, and arms.

 

[churchmouse]

Many years ago the High Standard Model 10 was developed as an entry weapon and to allow one arm firing from a vehicle. IMHO still one of the best shotgun designs ever.

Interesting LE. You have some of the absolute coolest pieces.

 

[turnandshoot4]

The first volley of rounds were probably deflected some. After that, the windshield was ported. With things being closer than they appear on camera, I'd guess the majority of his rounds at least hit the vehicle. I got the impression from watching the video, that he definitely had an effect, based on the slow roll to an angled stop the vehicle had at the end.

Every time I've done shooting through windshields from the inside we use different parts of the glass and it deflects the bullets up in each new spot. This way multiple shooters can use the same windshield.

I don't know that any of his shots went through the same hole.

 

[devildog70]

Every time I've done shooting through windshields from the inside we use different parts of the glass and it deflects the bullets up in each new spot. This way multiple shooters can use the same windshield.

I don't know that any of his shots went through the same hole.

They don't have to go through the exact same hole. The second string of fire, all rounds went through within a very small area. The glass was already shattered there, and only in-place because of the laminate.