Las Vegas Shooter: What Could You Do Under Those Circumstances?

[Coach]

I pray that if such a situation breaks out in my vicinity that I have my guns and have enough situational awareness that I see it coming. If I cannot prevail I want to die in a pile of brass. Some of those people never heard the shots that killed them. Jason Aldean should be very thankful to be alive. The good Lord must have future plans for him.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Being trained to treat trauma and keeping your head up is all I have.

Even with some of the fine marksmen on INGO, even armed with our rifle of choice, that would be an almost impossible situation to counterattack (first you would have to identify the location of the shooter in a timeframe that mattered, good luck).

Movement to cover, movement to somewhere you will not be crushed by the herd, those probably help, but not being too drunk to function is probably a pretty good first step. Knowing where the exits and fire extinguishers are, along with some trauma care training is the best plan I have come up with.

If you were at the concert, your chances of being shot are super low. Your chances of finding someone who has been hurt and needs you to help them is pretty decent.

 

[churchmouse]

I pray that if such a situation breaks out in my vicinity that I have my guns and have enough situational awareness that I see it coming. If I cannot prevail I want to die in a pile of brass. Some of those people never heard the shots that killed them. Jason Aldean should be very thankful to be alive. The good Lord must have future plans for him.

Bingo.
Thing is with this scenario it would be near impossible to put rounds on the assailant. Especially from your EDC.

 

[indyjohn]

Move. Pray to the diety of your choice. Continue to move.

You are caught in an ambush with no way to counter assault. Movement is the least lousy option.

This is the best advice, even if you don't know your surroundings. We all know a moving target is harder to hit. Keep moving.

 

[Phase2]

Perhaps. It also may single you out as a target. Movement, and movement to cover is about all can be done in that situation. That and prepare your med kit.

With no effective way to counterattack, movement to exit (if readily available) or to cover are the best options. Ability and willingness to render medical aid are secondary (not everyone wants to play combat medic).

But I'll go with Rhino on moving away from crowds in a situation like this. If you can't get out/hide quickly, then crowds will draw fire from mass murderers/terrorists. Both have an desire to run up a body count and I prefer my chances away from the major crowds if there is anywhere else to go.

 

[Lelliott8]

It might be too soon to discuss this, but as soon as it happened my brain started trying to think of ways to reduce your chance of dying when you're in a crowd of 20,000 people in a small area and some horrible excuse for a person starts firing into the crowd from the 32 floor of an adjacent building.

So far, my analysis has yielded:

1. Avoid big crowds. I do this whenever possible and this is just another example why I am glad that I have no interest in activities that involve big crowds of people.

2. The best course of action I could conceive was to start moving and get as far away from the bulk of the crowd as quickly as possible. I think if he was aiming in a conventional sense, it was at the crowd and not targeting and hitting individuals. Of similar importance would be to move to any available cover at the same time you're separating yourself from the crowd.

#2 necessitates being very aware of your surroundings, observing potential routes of egress long before anything bad started to happen, and noting places where you might be able to take cover. Then, form a plan and a backup plan to minimize the dithering and decision making that will be next to impossible under that kind of stress. Some people do this kind of thing on a smaller scale when they walk into a restaurant, but it seems like the concept would be solid for a variety of situations.

Well said! I like your post-script about moving to cover. Don't just run, run to safety.

 

[VERT]

Vegas is a weird situation. First disclaimer, we really don't know the whole story yet. But it would appear and everyone can agree that a guy discharged as many rounds as he could into a very large crowd from long distance from a super elevated position. Truth is moving or sitting still or hiding or cover was almost irrelevant. He would not have been targeting individuals but rather the crowd. Bullets would have been striking areas before you heard them, bullets would be passing through objects, bullets would be bouncing off the ground. Really it is pure dumb luck if people were hit or missed. How many bullets hit the area before people even noticed that something was wrong?

 

[churchmouse]

Vegas is a weird situation. First disclaimer, we really don't know the whole story yet. But it would appear and everyone can agree that a guy discharged as many rounds as he could into a very large crowd from long distance from a super elevated position. Truth is moving or sitting still or hiding or cover was almost irrelevant. He would not have been targeting individuals but rather the crowd. Bullets would have been striking areas before you heard them, bullets would be passing through objects, bullets would be bouncing off the ground. Really it is pure dumb luck if people were hit or missed. How many bullets hit the area before people even noticed that something was wrong?

From the distance he was set up at could the crowd even really tell they were being shot at past people being hit. Over the music was the sound of the shots even discernible..??

 

[SSGSAD]

My rules .....

If I can't carry, I don't go .....

I have been to one Colts game ..... 1999, they played and beat the Cowboys .....

I went to one concert last year, at Bankers Life, John Mellencamp .....

In this sit., if you can't see your target, you can't hit them .....

A handgun, at 500 yards, is no good .....

 

[SSGSAD]

From the distance he was set up at could the crowd even really tell they were being shot at past people being hit. Over the music was the sound of the shots even discernible..??

People said it sounded like fireworks .....

Being close to the stage, who knows .....

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Do you think my idea to try to move away from the "target" (i.e. the crowd) has merit?

Sure. Of course, you'll probably only know what was the "right" direction in hindsight and you'll have to avoid crowd pressure.

The crush of the crowd at an outdoor concert during the Super Bowl made me realize it's almost a hydraulic force. I, along with several other cops, were assigned to help get a medic through the crowd to a pregnant woman. It took us about an hour per block to make progress, and that was with long batons being used as a wedge and a cooperative crowd. Had the crowd moved, all you can do is move with it.

Also, shots echo around weird and with all the sensory input, it may be tough to figure out exactly where the shooter is...plus the fact you may not know how many shooters there are.

There are no good options, only less lousy ones. Move toward a building, make entry, get out the other side, and keep moving would probably be the best you could do.

 

[Brad69]

In the Vegas situation if you ran toward the shooter to get under the angle of fire you would have been safe.
He created a near perfect "beaten zone".
Most of his rounds were coming in at an angle from 1 meter to about 3 meters. So the first bullets hit them in the head the last hit them in the legs.
This normally an indirect fire method for machine guns because of his angle he could do this with direct fire.
So his supposed "spraying" the crowd wasn't.

The old saying still works
I AM UP
THEY SEE ME
I AM DOWN
Never exposed yourself for more than 3 seconds any longer a avarage rifleman will tag you.

Run in a zigzag not a straight line.

 

[Cameramonkey]

And try to hug a wall as you run if possible. Less likely to trampled if you trip if you arent in the main body of the flow. And less likely to trip if you have a wall to your side.

And screw rally points. If its a terror attack, move and keep moving. Dont go to where they tell you to go stand as a group. Terrorists have started planning for that and are trying secondary hits on where people evac to, Typically a parking lot. So they attack your building and you bail out to the parking lot? 20 mins later a car bomb in the lot detonates. You're screwed. When you evac and hit that lot, keep running. Do your best Forrest Gump. If its work you can always call in later to tell them you are OK.

 

[Brad69]

Bullet's like to follow walls stay about a foot off of a wall.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Bullet's like to follow walls stay about a foot off of a wall.

given the unlikely event of getting shot or the more likely event of being squished, crushed, tripped, then trampled in the mass exodous, I'll take the wall.

 

[Brad69]

I recall a video of a concert back in the 80's that was horrible people were getting crushed into the stage?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Never exposed yourself for more than 3 seconds any longer a avarage rifleman will tag you.

Run in a zigzag not a straight line.

That's all smart if you're the target and have room to maneuver. Nobody was the target, and crowd pressure is going to dictate a lot of your available movement. This was more like dealing with artillery, and was effectively a really lousy lottery. The longer you stay in the box, the higher the chances of your numbers coming up.

given the unlikely event of getting shot or the more likely event of being squished, crushed, tripped, then trampled in the mass exodous, I'll take the wall.

I think that's a good plan with one caveat.

Walls near exits could become crush points. Something to keep in mind is interior walls are often easy to breach with makeshift tools. Using a fire extinguisher or chair leg to bust through dry wall between studs, for example, can create an exit where none existed and where the crowd isn't.

 

[riverman67]

Like Rhino, I don't like crowds so I tend to avoid places where they will be.
Over the years I have started leaning toward avoiding places and events where I am forcibly disarmed. Being armed would not have mattered in Vegas.
Getting to cover and then an exit is probably the best plan but I can imagine a scenario where I would be forced to stop and help an injured person.

 

[rvb]

something not mentioned is choosing your location... ie the center of the field might provide the best view/sound, but is it ideal should the crowd rush for any reason, not just something like the Vegas shooter? Maybe favor nearer an exit point, wall, pillar, sound booth, speaker rack, etc? Provide a somewhat close point to head to not only to avoid bullets (or large truck, or whatever) but to get out of the tide of people. Provide a rally point for you an yours to decide where best to go from there... I try to have SA anywhere I go... paying attention to the location of exit points, cover, etc. But this may cause me to choose a seat/location a little closer, too. Not saying you have to stand 6" from an exit, but being a few yards away vs 100 yds away might make the difference in escape and avoiding being trampled...

-rvb

 

[Thor]

Move to cover, if you don't know what cover is keep moving until you find something that is. It's hard enough to tag a specific target from 500yds let alone a moving target...and this guy wasn't picking his targets very carefully, certainly at first. So, as John Belushi said: Serpentine!

Me? I stay out of crowds...I don't even like mildly crowded stores, the spidey senses start going crazy. And I hate Vegas, been there too many times for work, if I never go there again it will be too soon.

In this specific situation; unless you had the room next door (and carried a similar arsenal on your vacation) there's not much you could do offensively so we're back to protect your loved ones, move to cover (and don't go there in the first place).