Legit AD on a Holstered SIG 320 on video

[Dechrissen]

I'd like to hear more positive evidence for why the 365 is safe, especially considering the 320 and 365's general operation is the same, per @92FSTech 's comment. (Not playing devil's advocate, actually just curious — and there must be some reason, because I haven't heard of any similar ADs in the 365).

 

[Tombs]

How many years has the P320/M17 platform been around now? Still just a DAO handgun with a quick and dirty modification to make it striker fired, to snag a contract.

All that is needed to fix the firearm is a trigger dingus, but sig in their infinite wisdom STILL can not understand this.

If their engineers are that incompetent as to not understand the need for an inertial safety, then I wouldn't trust anything they produce. It's all only a matter of time and murphy's law before anything else designed this way is going to end up with an AD. It's truly baffling that they are so opposed to such a simple mechanism used on every striker fired gun out there.

**note if you love your <insert sig product here> and are totally sure it'll never have this issue, then go right ahead and keep believing it, I have no desire to argue or change your mind.

 

[Dechrissen]

**note if you love your <insert sig product here> and are totally sure it'll never have this issue, then go right ahead and keep believing it, I have no desire to argue or change your mind.

 

[DadSmith]

This always amuses me a little bit. The 320 and 365 are indeed different guns, and don't share parts, but the cycle of operations and theory behind their design is pretty much exactly the same. Both have a fully-cocked striker and discharge by simply dropping the sear from the striker hook via a pull of the trigger. Neither has a trigger safety. For all intents and purposes, the P365 is basically a miniaturized P320...Sig basically found a way to take the design logic behind the 320 and fit it into a smaller package.

In spite of that, I rarely hear anyone say anything negative about the safety of the P365. In fact, I hear people say all the time that they pocket carry it. Many of those same people will vehemently denounce the P320 as unsafe...yet nobody can specifically identify WHY the 320 is dangerous while the 365 is not.

I was wondering about this myself when this thread came up.
Thought to myself "Why do we not hear about these problems the P365?"
I was wondering if they were the same mechanically.

 

[92FSTech]

I was wondering about this myself when this thread came up.
Thought to myself "Why do we not hear about these problems the P365?"
I was wondering if they were the same mechanically.

I'm an armorer on both platforms. One is not simply a miniaturized version of the other, but they function off the same basic mechanical principles.

As to why we don't hear stories of spontaneous discharges from the P365...I don't know why we're not hearing them in the media. It could be that they're not being issued in the same numbers as the P320, or simply that the lawyers smell blood in the water because of the M17/M18 contracts. Or it could be that there's actually a defect in the 320 design. And if there is such a defect, it would be important to determine if it does or does not also affect the P365, and why. To-date, though, nobody has been able to do that.

 

[Brad69]

So HI points are a better choice!

I still say a win for the 1911,g%#k,S&W,Walther and all the rest!

But if we carried DA revolvers we would all be safer.

 

[cedartop]

So HI points are a better choice!

I still say a win for the 1911,g%#k,S&W,Walther and all the rest!

But if we carried DA revolvers we would all be safer.

I don't know, you would think so but I watched an officer who happened to be one of our firearms instructors launch a round out of his issue BUG into the squad room floor. If you purposely pull the trigger because you "thought" it was unloaded being a DA revolver doesn't help.

 

[Route 45]

I don't know, you would think so but I watched an officer who happened to be one of our firearms instructors launch a round out of his issue BUG into the squad room floor. If you purposely pull the trigger because you "thought" it was unloaded being a DA revolver doesn't help.

Anyone who thinks that any gun is idiot-proof doesn't understand how advanced idiots are.

 

[ditcherman]

I don't know, you would think so but I watched an officer who happened to be one of our firearms instructors launch a round out of his issue BUG into the squad room floor. If you purposely pull the trigger because you "thought" it was unloaded being a DA revolver doesn't help.

There should be a rule!!
Something like “all guns are always loaded”, or “you have to pretend like all guns are always loaded”, or something like that.
Why hasn’t anyone ever thought of that?

 

[Brad69]

I don't know, you would think so but I watched an officer who happened to be one of our firearms instructors launch a round out of his issue BUG into the squad room floor. If you purposely pull the trigger because you "thought" it was unloaded being a DA revolver doesn't help.

Your right witnessed a full out operator shoot though the floor of a vehicle.
He did this by pulling the trigger on a M9 in a drop leg holster. While attempting to draw it.


Or the Afghan National that shot our refrigerator with a G17. While trying to unload it. 30 days with nothing cold. In the desert yay.

 

[BrianT]

IMO stolen design from Steyr and they didn’t address the Steyrs amount of pre cock that wasn’t nearly as big of a deal with the way the Steyr trigger with the safety blade and rail interface to the frame was on the m9. I’m really curious when people will stop justifying their purchase and get rid of these. How would people react if someone was carrying around a Taurus Mil Pro or 24/7? Everyone would be quick to tell them it’s not safe. But Sig gets away with it over and over…

 

[ECS686]

IMO stolen design from Steyr and they didn’t address the Steyrs amount of pre cock that wasn’t nearly as big of a deal with the way the Steyr trigger with the safety blade and rail interface to the frame was on the m9. I’m really curious when people will stop justifying their purchase and get rid of these. How would people react if someone was carrying around a Taurus Mil Pro or 24/7? Everyone would be quick to tell them it’s not safe. But Sig gets away with it over and over…

Like I posted from FB earlier. if the Sig 320 was a Boeing product it would have been grounded by now!

 

[Coltsmaniac53]

Crazy. He didn't touch it. I'm skeptical of my P365 now (different platform I know, but still).

I wouldn't worry about the P365 but that being said I just sold my P320 about 30 minutes ago

 

[Creedmoor]

How many years has the P320/M17 platform been around now? Still just a DAO handgun with a quick and dirty modification to make it striker fired, to snag a contract.

All that is needed to fix the firearm is a trigger dingus, but sig in their infinite wisdom STILL can not understand this.

If their engineers are that incompetent as to not understand the need for an inertial safety, then I wouldn't trust anything they produce. It's all only a matter of time and murphy's law before anything else designed this way is going to end up with an AD. It's truly baffling that they are so opposed to such a simple mechanism used on every striker fired gun out there.

**note if you love your <insert sig product here> and are totally sure it'll never have this issue, then go right ahead and keep believing it, I have no desire to argue or change your mind.

Haven't watched "Sig Mechanics 320" video yet have you.

A trigger dingus didnt keep Glocks from firing when someone's booger hook, clothing, keys or something else hits it and pushes the trigger back when re-holstering or drawing.
Now has it?
How many discharges has Glock had with the "Pull the Trigger" before pulling the slide off.
Look at the trigger blade failures over the last 30 years.
Sig learned from Glocks failures.


Civilian models of the P320 have two internal safeties, but neither can be controlled by the user. The primary internal safety is designed to catch the striker in the case of a malfunction. A second mechanism prevents the weapon from discharging when its slide is drawn backward.
If one buys the M17 or 18 you also have an external safety.

 

[Creedmoor]

I wouldn't worry about the P365 but that being said I just sold my P320 about 30 minutes ago

So, you sold a gun over a supposed problem, that no one can replicate...

 

[Route 45]

So, you sold a gun over a supposed problem, that no one can replicate...

Instead of destroying it, like the dangerous beast it is, he put it back into circulation to indiscriminately kill children and puppies.

For money.

The man is a monster.

 

[Creedmoor]

Instead of destroying it, like the dangerous beast it is, he put it back into circulation to indiscriminately kill children and puppies.

For money.

The man is a monster.

He should be REPORTED!!!!
So it was written so it shall be done...

 

[Tombs]

Haven't watched "Sig Mechanics 320" video yet have you.

A trigger dingus didnt keep Glocks from firing when someone's booger hook, clothing, keys or something else hits it and pushes the trigger back when re-holstering or drawing.
Now has it?
How many discharges has Glock had with the "Pull the Trigger" before pulling the slide off.
Look at the trigger blade failures over the last 30 years.
Sig learned from Glocks failures.


Civilian models of the P320 have two internal safeties, but neither can be controlled by the user. The primary internal safety is designed to catch the striker in the case of a malfunction. A second mechanism prevents the weapon from discharging when its slide is drawn backward.
If one buys the M17 or 18 you also have an external safety.

You're not understanding what the word "inertial" in "inertial safety" means.

The reason sigs were firing when dropped was due to the mass of the trigger shoe being great enough that it could pull its self with enough inertia imparted into the firearm. This has nothing to do with clothing or people pulling the trigger. That is a straight up oversight by the engineers. Their fix was to reduce the mass of the trigger shoe, not to actually solve the problem, that just makes it more difficult.

If someone is putting their finger on the trigger and pulling it, that is not an engineering problem, that is a training problem.

You can't fix the issue sig has without a trigger dingus unless you want to render the firearm unable to fire by pulling the trigger, which would make it a paper weight.

I'll attempt to lay out an example that parallels this issue. Say a manufacturer wants to make a 1911 that doesn't have a thumb safety, firing pin block, or grip safety because they're fixated on being different. They set up the sear and hammer interface such that under almost no condition could it actually fire without pulling the trigger. Spike it on the ground, and it'll still hold because of positive sear interference.

Would you consider that equally safe to every other 1911 out there, or would you think that their desire to be different was treading into unnecessary risks?

 

[Creedmoor]

You're not understanding what the word "inertial" in "inertial safety" means.

The reason sigs were firing when dropped was due to the mass of the trigger shoe being great enough that it could pull its self with enough inertia imparted into the firearm. This has nothing to do with clothing or people pulling the trigger. That is a straight up oversight by the engineers. Their fix was to reduce the mass of the trigger shoe, not to actually solve the problem, that just makes it more difficult.

If someone is putting their finger on the trigger and pulling it, that is not an engineering problem, that is a training problem.

You keep bringing up a problem that was addressed what 5-6 years ago, my friend.
Those problems are long gone.

Its just like saying Harley's still leak, even though the problem went away in 1984-85.

I'm a machinery guy, been working around them since I was a kid, a gun is a machine, when machines that don't have a brain ( microprocessor) its easy to replicate a problem.
If you honestly really believe that the 320 still has problems, go and replicate it.
I not gonna wait.

 

[Creedmoor]

How many years has the P320/M17 platform been around now? Still just a DAO handgun with a quick and dirty modification to make it striker fired, to snag a contract.

All that is needed to fix the firearm is a trigger dingus, but sig in their infinite wisdom STILL can not understand this.

If their engineers are that incompetent as to not understand the need for an inertial safety, then I wouldn't trust anything they produce. It's all only a matter of time and murphy's law before anything else designed this way is going to end up with an AD. It's truly baffling that they are so opposed to such a simple mechanism used on every striker fired gun out there.

**note if you love your <insert sig product here> and are totally sure it'll never have this issue, then go right ahead and keep believing it, I have no desire to argue or change your mind.

I just found this for you, this engineering jobs are right up your alley sir. You will have the opportunity to correct all of the other Sig Sauer Engineers failures to live up to your standards.

https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Sig-Sauer,-Inc./jobs?jk=7c528bb38defdfac&start=0&clearPrefilter=1

https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Sig-Sauer,-Inc./jobs?jk=923cb59a971f1843&start=150