Lessons learned in the GPM shooting

[BehindBlueI's]

Just a reminder. Just because you suck with a snub doesn't mean everyone does. 40y, wrong handed due to a broken hand, 7/8 hits. Could he be more better with a more bigger gun? Almost certainly. Is a .22 the best choice? Hard no (unless you have a broken hand and recoil control is going to be problematic...) Would you like to be mowing down the food court and have this guy flank you while you were unaware? Think you're last words would be "but it was just a rimfire snub...." as you died the pathetic loser that active shooter you doubtlessly is?

 

[Dean Weingarten]

Before the dupe police shut this one down, this is not a dupe of the break room discussion, but instead a focus on what we can learn or confirm from the Greenwood Park Mall shooting. The Break Room discussion is largely political, this one is more practical.

Let’s talk through the shooting in the Greenwood Park Mall to see if it changes any commonly held truths. First up for me is that ‘No Guns’ signs are only an insurance requirement and EVERYONE on the thinking side of the earth acknowledges that. Even Simon Property Group is thanking the Armed Samaritan for ignoring their signs.

Next up for me is that 9mm did the job as an unqualified success. I’m a .40 guy that has always preferred .40, .357 Sig or .45. I do carry 9mm but feel better with a larger caliber. This shoot changes that for me somewhat.

Third, capacity matters. If the Armed Samaritan were carrying a J-frame, Sig 238 or other small pocket sized pistol, would he have been able to succeed as he did? Would 5 or 6 rounds from a small pistol been enough to allow successful engagement? That would be a tough call.

Another issue is training. There are many on this site that have said that it’s irresponsible to carry without formal training. This shooting shows that responsibility is required for gaining skills and training is just one path to that goal. Discipline and practice go a long way. Training is great but the same skills can be obtained in other ways.

The biggest lesson here to me though, is mindset. The Armed Samaritan seems to have had a clarity in mission amid a chaotic situation. Each of his actions look to be purposeful and well executed.

Practice using support. At 40 or 50 yards, there is a good chance you can use a rest of some kind. It is likely Eli did. Using a support increases chances of hitting. Firing from sitting or prone increases accuracy.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Practice using support. At 40 or 50 yards, there is a good chance you can use a rest of some kind. It is likely Eli did. Using a support increases chances of hitting. Firing from sitting or prone increases accuracy.

Shooting from sitting or prone really limits your ability to move if needed. Being able to move can be very important

 

[Lpherr]

Why can't you carry at Costco?

They were out of rotisserie chicken?

 

[Ziggidy]

There is a boat load of good info in this thread. Much to digest and consider.

 

[ditcherman]

For some reason, now the song "Dream Police" is in my head, but it's changed to the "Dupe Police"

Dupe weaver, I believe you can get me through the night,
Ooh dupe weaver, I believe we can reach the morning light…

 

[ditcherman]

There is a boat load of good info in this thread. Much to digest and consider.

I’m sorry.

 

[wcd]

Shooting from sitting or prone really limits your ability to move if needed. Being able to move can be very important

This!!!!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Shooting from sitting or prone really limits your ability to move if needed. Being able to move can be very important

...and it may allow you to use cover and concealment more effectively, which can also be more important. Context dependent, obviously, but from a hasty ambush I'd rather have solid cover and most of me hidden behind it than be worried about movement. Particularly vs a rifleman in the open.

 

[bwframe]

Practice using support. At 40 or 50 yards, there is a good chance you can use a rest of some kind. It is likely Eli did. Using a support increases chances of hitting. Firing from sitting or prone increases accuracy.

Where do your rest your pistol, when shooting from support? From a vertical support?


.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Where do your rest your pistol, when shooting from support? From a vertical support?


.

Whatever support you can find.

 

[bwframe]

Whatever support you can find.

Right, but how do you steady your pistol on it?


.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Right, but how do you steady your pistol on it?


.

I cant it 45 and either rest the bottom of the frame under the slide, or against the front bottom corner of the trigger guard. I've also pushed the front of the trigger guard against the corner of the barrier

 

[hammerd13]

Where do your rest your pistol, when shooting from support? From a vertical support?


.

One way, would be to stand to the left of a vertical support (if you're right-handed) and place your left hand on post at shoulder height. This places your left forearm in a horizontal orientation (a shelf of sorts).

You then bring your right hand (holding the gun) over your left horizontal forearm and rest your right palm on your left forearm/wrist. Very stable. Doing this in reverse order (present gun to target, then bring left arm underneath right palm) could help to avoid flagging yourself.

This is similar to how you use a flashlight with a pistol (Harries technique). Folks hunting in the woods will often do this to steady a rifle, by using a tree as a vertical support.

 

[churchmouse]

It may be too early to put this on the board -- and note I'm certainly not against good formal training -- and and and I am putting on my nomex underpants now because I can predict some of the responses I may provoke -- but the whole, "If you can't go to Gun Site quarterly with your custom <whatever brand/model> in <whatever caliber> you might as well not carry..." mentality will hopefully be tempered a bit. I think the VC and Taliban proved an idiot with a gun can be quite effective if he is motivated AND gets the drop on you.

Would it be awesome to do go to training with a big name monthly/quarterly? Hell yes!

Can most people afford the $$$ and time to do it? Hell no!

Competence, tactics and mindset, as mentioned above.

Posted with love and brotherhood for all my more well heeled compatriots here.

I think you missed the points I was making when I posted about training.
You can practice/train by yourself if you must. You can gather with like minded friends and gain a world of knowledge if you address the time usefully.
But I se what you are saying.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Much like experts built the Titanic and an amateur built the Ark, remember this young man is reported to not have any formal training. Just work with his grandpa.

So its possible to get proficient without the likes of the Gunsites of the world.

 

[cedartop]

Much like experts built the Titanic and an amateur built the Ark, remember this young man is reported to not have any formal training. Just work with his grandpa.

So its possible to get proficient without the likes of the Gunsites of the world.

It is absolutely possible. However, most people never do. To be fair, many with formal training never get proficient either.

 

[cedartop]

Just a reminder. Just because you suck with a snub doesn't mean everyone does. 40y, wrong handed due to a broken hand, 7/8 hits. Could he be more better with a more bigger gun? Almost certainly. Is a .22 the best choice? Hard no (unless you have a broken hand and recoil control is going to be problematic...) Would you like to be mowing down the food court and have this guy flank you while you were unaware? Think you're last words would be "but it was just a rimfire snub...." as you died the pathetic loser that active shooter you doubtlessly is?

Two things about Rhett. Whenever I see him I always think young Gabe Suarez, and whenever I see him, he always manages to impress.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

Practice using support. At 40 or 50 yards, there is a good chance you can use a rest of some kind. It is likely Eli did. Using a support increases chances of hitting. Firing from sitting or prone increases accuracy.

Whenever I shoot at the range, (say I'm sighting in a new scope) I'm normally starting off at the 50 yd line. (Jasper Pulaski) Once I'm done at the bench with my rifle / rifles, last thing I do before I go home / to another range, is crack off a couple mags with my carry piece at the target. One mag standing, one kneeling. I haven't used a rest as I don't know if one will be available when I need one, but I do use a good two handed grip. Not fast, or slow, just a good rhythm that follows the front sight coming back on target. My two main carry guns mostly, a Dan Wesson Guardian, or Glock 45. (whatever one I have on me that day) I can pretty much keep every round (124 gr HST) on a paper plate sized "shoot-n-see" at that distance with either one, but more gooder with the Guardian. Way more gooder...

Of course that target isn't moving... or shooting back... but it's good practice none the same.

 

[daddyusmaximus]

From another forum... Just repeating what was said there, so it's not confirmed...

This photo is supposed to be the location it went down. Supposedly Eli was standing behind the pillar, and the shooter was just outside the bathroom corridor in the background. It's said, the police report states 76 feet despite all the "40 yd" internet talk. Of course, it may be some time till all the details are released, and no telling if this is correct either.
Either way... still an amazing feat of skill, and bravery.