Let's talk 3-gun/multi-gun

[Soundslikejosh]

Play by my rules or go home?

I understand respecting their house, but if I am wiling to pay the match fee and take no score, I don't see it as being a huge request. Perhaps if I had worn the match directors shoes I would understand.

 

[Soundslikejosh]

Wait, I think I missed something. You are saying that to get a dedicated .22 division would require some beer and burgers. That makes sense.

Reading is fun.

 

[NateIU10]

Ooooooo this looks fun too bad I have school crap until I go home, but I hope to get out there after the first

 

[slow1911s]

Wait, I think I missed something. You are saying that to get a dedicated .22 division would require some beer and burgers. That makes sense.

Reading is fun.

Yeah. I'm just saying to give the MD a heads up. For the record, I've never seen anyone shoot 22LR at a 3/multi-gun match in the 4 years I've been doing it. Rhino or John may be able to chime in with something different. I still think it is a great idea if it gets participation up. Besides, its only a matter of time until you realize that rocking out with a AR is a helluva lot of fun.

 

[indyjoe]

Rocking out with an AR might be fun, but for those of us that have not found the $800 to build up the AR, using the LTR rifles that we built to learn how to shoot at Appleseed would be nice. Short of my .44 lever action, I do not have a rifle that I could use. This would also drop the ammo costs down quite a bit. What type of round is used with the shotgun?

 

[BillD]

I've never seen it either.

I don't know that most MD's would allow it.

 

[Soundslikejosh]

I have no ill will to a MD who wants to maintain the sport in its original form. Allowing .22s will undoubtedly change things, and I understand not everyone will like the change.

However, this is how I see it. I have the pistol ammo necessary, so I have to buy rifle ammo, bird shot and slugs. By the time I purchase the ammo I don't have, pay match fee and gas to the range, I am around $80 for the day. That doesn't include the pistol ammo I already purchased.

I am not trying to complain about how the world owes me something and that ammo should be free and there should be no match fees. I understand that you can only have so much in life and you have to determine where you are willing to spend your money. My point is that I suspect there are a lot of people who won't pay the money for the ammo and match fee. Of course, higher round count means more fun too, so its not all negative. Bottom line, at least for me, is that I won't part with the $80. At least not on one match (although arguably it is 3 matches).

The way I see it, the current set up is likely to limit the number of shooters who turn out. This approach also maintains the "integrity" or "spirit" of the game. Is it better to shoot this game with centerfires and a smaller crowd, or adapt the rules in an attempt to bring in more folks. That's not a rhetorical question, and I understand some folks don't care to bring in more shooters, or more shooters who aren't willing to drop the cash on ammo. Whatever an MD decides is their choice, I can really see it both ways.

As a parting shot, I am luckier than others. A friend generously offered to loan me a rifle for the match. I know that others will do so for 3 gun newbs, but its still generous and appreciated. For people who don't have access to loaned rifles (or don't know they have access, or are too proud to borrow) it becomes even further out of reach.

 

[slow1911s]

Shotgun is is #6 birdshot or smaller. I use #7 1/2 nearly all of the time. The targets will be stationary or moving clays, or steel knockdown targets.

We also require slugs on paper targets.

Really though, if you don't have the rifle, send a note to the MD and see if they think you might be able to borrow one from one of the regulars. Just bring enough ammo (and not Wolf unless you get the okay before hand.)

 

[Caspian]

I shot my first multigun match earlier this summer at Wildcat Valley. I went with a couple of freinds that had shot it before. I borrowed both the rifle and the shotgun from one of them.

 

[BillD]

It is an expensive sport. It's at least as expensive as golf. Reloading supplies, shotgun ammo, tons of magazines, upkeep on the weapons, reloaders, the weapons themselves.....it costs a lot to play. It takes a while to accumulate the gear. I get a bonus every spring and for the last few years (since the divorce...lol) spend quite a bit of it on the sport.

Course, I usually by one new gun also but I'm trying to be very careful about that. I will buy a new gun that will fit into holsters I already have and I try not to introduce any new calibers.

I've got to get a Dillon 550 with the next bonus so I can feed my AR and my .38's.

 

[obijohn]

Yeah. I'm just saying to give the MD a heads up. For the record, I've never seen anyone shoot 22LR at a 3/multi-gun match in the 4 years I've been doing it. Rhino or John may be able to chime in with something different. I still think it is a great idea if it gets participation up. Besides, its only a matter of time until you realize that rocking out with a AR is a helluva lot of fun.

this actually gets discussed more often than you think. the problem is mixing in the 22 shooters. there have been side matches, but typically the 22 shooter doesn't have a proper holster for the pistol and what do you do about the shotgun? these are all comments i've heard in the past. all i could say that check with the md at a local match and see about the possibility of a rimfire, say 2gun, on a 5th sunday or something. another possibility is the frequent the steel matches, like the monthly at riley conservation club or marion county gun club. by definition they allow and in fact encourage rimfire participation.

i've thought about this for a couple of decades and would be willing to work with an md or individual that would like to organize such an event.

fwiw, if, and i was for some time, i was the md then the rules are the rules. it's not so much a it's my rules and follow them or go home, it's that most of these matches are run under a national or international organization and the rules must be followed to keep any semblance of order. there is NO provision for rimfire guns under the rules in ipsc/uspsa or idpa. maybe we need a rimfire practical shooting organization?

 

[slow1911s]

Great points, John.

For the record, my comments regarding 22LR in 3/multi-gun are directed at rifles only. The expectation of any reasonable MD is that you'd be able to manipulate and reload the rimfire rifle at least as well as a novice AR operator. And, to one more end - I'm talking about magazine fed 22's. The ideal situation is that all competitors are shooting guns that fall within the rules. But I am open, and I am suggesting, that people have an open mind when dealing with this issue. More participation is a good thing, but it still needs to be managed.

Yes - it is a spendy sport. But, I don't see many other outlets for the same level of practical firearms experience that 3/multi-gun provides, and certainly not at the same price point.

I started this discussion because I wanted start people thinking about or learning about outlets to use their rifles, shotguns and pistols in a fun, yet practical environment. 3/multi-gun is just such an environment.

I owe nearly everything I know about ARs and 3/multi-gun to Rhino. I was very hesitant to begin with (did I mention that Rhino colluded with my wife to buy me my first AR on my 30th b-day?), but I'm damn glad I did. It has helped my other shooting immensely, and it has brought me many lessons that transcend the range and the match.

 

[obijohn]

rhino has led another youth to the dark side.

 

[rhino]

I can see this thread went downhill fast. Figures, with you two...

Nice to finally be here.

Course, at my age, it's nice to be anywhere

Welcome, Bill! Good to see you here.

 

[rhino]

Re: .22LR

I've been an advocate of allowing .22LR in practical shooting matches for years, although I quit "pushing" a few years ago. With the current ammo prices, perhaps people will be more receptive to the idea.

If WVPPS ever has another 3-gun or multi-gun match at Terre Haute, I'd be glad to allow .22LR to shoot for fun. I'd be glad to lend my support to anyone who wants to institute such a policy in all of the nearby 3-gun and multi-gun matches.

On a similar note, one of the pet ideas I've had in the past is something I've discussed extensively with soundslikejosh's brother, Mike. That is, .22LR mini-sniper matches that can be done with 100 or even 50 yard ranges with a variety of reduced size targets. Mike has actually constructed one of the target displays he conceived, which we coined the "Cracker Racker." Essentially it's a metal rack to hold a row of saltines or other crackers/cookies to be used for rimfire reactive targets. We would also use the 1/3 scale IPSC targets reduced even further, little green army men, you name it.

The problem is, when I tried to float this idea a couple of years ago, very few people seemed sufficiently interested to try it. Now that .22LR is about the only affordable ammo, perhaps it's time to try again. We could easily include "run'n'gun" elements as well ... maybe have a match consisting of two parts: a practical match with your self-loading rifle, then a sniper match with smaller targets and your precision rifle (and of course you could use the same gun for both if you so choose).

I think we should try this on a weekend this winter when no one is shooting matches anyway. The birds and other critters will be happy for the broken crackers and 'nilla wafers and we could have a buttload of fun.

 

[bwframe]

On a similar note, one of the pet ideas I've had in the past is something I've discussed extensively with soundslikejosh's brother, Mike. That is, .22LR mini-sniper matches that can be done with 100 or even 50 yard ranges with a variety of reduced size targets. Mike has actually constructed one of the target displays he conceived, which we coined the "Cracker Racker." Essentially it's a metal rack to hold a row of saltines or other crackers/cookies to be used for rimfire reactive targets. We would also use the 1/3 scale IPSC targets reduced even further, little green army men, you name it.

We could easily include "run'n'gun" elements as well ... maybe have a match consisting of two parts: a practical match with your self-loading rifle, then a sniper match with smaller targets and your precision rifle (and of course you could use the same gun for both if you so choose).

I think we should try this on a weekend this winter when no one is shooting matches anyway. The birds and other critters will be happy for the broken crackers and 'nilla wafers and we could have a buttload of fun.

Ohh, I'm interested. Would this include all rimfires? .17's would be hard to beat on the precision side.

 

[rhino]

Ohh, I'm interested. Would this include all rimfires? .17's would be hard to beat on the precision side.

I don't see why not, although I think I'd restrict it to the non-magnum version so it would be more like the .22LR.

 

[obijohn]

I don't see why not, although I think I'd restrict it to the non-magnum version so it would be more like the .22LR.

you mean i won't be able to "game" the minisniper with my 17hmr? then should you be able to use your super racy ar10/22?

great idea. i'm in. let's do this thing.

 

[bwframe]

you mean i won't be able to "game" the minisniper with my 17hmr?

Me too?

 

[Soundslikejosh]

I am down with this. Let's do it. I'd bet something like this could be real popular. What percentage of this board has a 10/22?