Local LEO won't sign Form 4

[Blackhawk2001]

We've got those, but since they only have semi-auto capability they wouldn't be NFA items any longer, per my understanding.

I thought any weapon which could be returned to full-auto status (in other words, any weapon which isn't altered so that it cannot be returned to full-auto status) qualified as an NFA item.

 

[VUPDblue]

in the case of the DRMO acquired rifles in IMPDs inventory, they are M16 receivers with the autosear removed. they have the third pin hole which makes them machineguns whether the sear is installed or not. we also have a great many 14" 870s which are also NFA. I have neither of them but use my 18" 870 because I have many many hours and many many rounds invested in that particular gun. I will also be using my AR SBR instead of a department neutered rifle.

 

[Destro]

How is it different? By refusing to sign, an agent of a political subdivision is regulating that particular firearm and/or accessory.

the arguement would be simple, such a law is inconsistant with federal regulations:

as per the BATFE NFA Handbook

9.9.1 Is a law enforcement officer required to sign the certification?

In some jurisdictions, officers whose certifications on a transfer form would be acceptable will not sign the certifications for reasons of their own. These officials cannot be compelled to sign the certifications.

 

[JoshuaW]

the arguement would be simple, such a law is inconsistant with federal regulations:

as per the BATFE NFA Handbook

9.9.1 Is a law enforcement officer required to sign the certification?

In some jurisdictions, officers whose certifications on a transfer form would be acceptable will not sign the certifications for reasons of their own. These officials cannot be compelled to sign the certifications.

I disagree. That refers to federal law. Yes, there is no federal statute that can compel them to sign, but the Indiana law still could. The Indiana law prohibits them from making a law or policy more strict than the state. The state allows NFA, therefore a policy to not sign forms is more strict than the state laws which allow NFA. Therefore a state court could potentially require them to sign.

 

[Destro]

I disagree. That refers to federal law. Yes, there is no federal statute that can compel them to sign, but the Indiana law still could. The Indiana law prohibits them from making a law or policy more strict than the state. The state allows NFA, therefore a policy to not sign forms is more strict than the state laws which allow NFA. Therefore a state court could potentially require them to sign.

well im not sure if someone can be required to sign anything, I would be intrested in any court case requiring someone to sign their name.

and I don't see how a state court could "take away" federal regulations in this case. BATFE policy is that the CLEO cannot be forced to sign. BATFE is authroized under USC to make this policy.

 

[xryan.jacksonx]

How is it different? By refusing to sign, an agent of a political subdivision is regulating that particular firearm and/or accessory.

The end result might be the same for you, but it is different. The NFA branch is the one not giving you permission, not the sheriff. Interference is a positive act. That would mean that the sheriff took some action to stop you. Not signing is not taking a positive action. It is a negative action. He is simply refusing to help you comply with federal law. The federal law is the interference. If the federal law required that the sheriff come over to your house and bake you a birthday cake to get an NFA firearm, it wouldn't be the sheriff interfering with you getting the firearm if he deciedes he doesn't want to do. The level of difficulty and time commitment increases, but the same principal applies.

He may be a jerk for not signing. He may be no better than the BATFE. He may be violating the 2nd amendment, but he isn't really interfering per that law.

 

[tomaustin]

Indiana calls them the "office of the prosecuting attorney" for each county

 

[strong89]

wsenefeid pm me

 

[j706]

in the case of the DRMO acquired rifles in IMPDs inventory, they are M16 receivers with the autosear removed. they have the third pin hole which makes them machineguns whether the sear is installed or not. we also have a great many 14" 870s which are also NFA. I have neither of them but use my 18" 870 because I have many many hours and many many rounds invested in that particular gun. I will also be using my AR SBR instead of a department neutered rifle.

Curious as to why they removed the autosears.

 

[VUPDblue]

its against our GO for machineguns to be issued or approved.

 

[1371MARINE]

Are you outside of "city limits"? If so the sheriff is your CLEO

 

[wsenefeld]

Met with Marshal Voils yesterday and all is well. Talked for 90 minutes about NFA, reloading, and politics. Awesome guy. +1 Sir, +1

 

[DaKruiser]

Met with Marshal Voils yesterday and all is well. Talked for 90 minutes about NFA, reloading, and politics. Awesome guy. +1 Sir, +1

That's great to hear, hopefully things will be better for the next guy!

 

[j706]

Met with Marshal Voils yesterday and all is well. Talked for 90 minutes about NFA, reloading, and politics. Awesome guy. +1 Sir, +1

Yes he sure is.

 

[Ken Campbell]

Response

I seldom respond on anonymous web pages.

However, let me set the record straight.

When the gentleman called me complaining about the information he had obtained from a local police officer about the Marshal refusing to sign NFA paperwork, I had a lengthy, polite conversation with him.

I asked if he had actually spoke with the Marshal (He had not.) and directed him to do so. It is always best to go to the source and solve the issue. I did not say that Marshal Voils had a good reason. Again, the complainant had not spoken to the Marshal. (And note that my advice was followed and the issue resolved.)

I also directed him with how to make a complaint on the Marshal if need be.

I did not refuse to sign any paperwork. However, it is my belief that paperwork such as this be started by the local CLEO.

If one is to use my name in a story, please be sure to use it truthfully. Again, my reason for not posting on anonymous web pages.

There are few more pro-Second Amendment law enforcement officers or Sheriff's in our Republic than I.

Should you wish to discuss this further, I may be reached at the Boone County Sheriff's Office, 765-482-1412. I will not respond to comments on the web page.

Respectfully,

Sheriff Ken Campbell

Sheriff Cambell didnt specifically say that he wouldnt sign of on it, he stated that it was out of his jurisdiction and that if the Chief of Police in Thorntown wouldnt sign off on it, he must have a good reason.

If you call 911 here you get Boone County dispatch and thats whether you live in Lebanon, in Thorntown, or out in the county.



When I called the NFA branch, the specialist informed me that the local LEO can choose not to sign off if he or she wishes. Nothing that forces them to sign. She said the problem is becoming more common which is why she's been suggesting trusts to everybody.

Not going to consider a lawsuit. I'd like to stay on their good side and dont feel I am monitarily "owed" anything. Its his choice not to sign off and my choice to vote for someone else come next election.

 

[MontereyC6]

I seldom respond on anonymous web pages.

However, let me set the record straight.

When the gentleman called me complaining about the information he had obtained from a local police officer about the Marshal refusing to sign NFA paperwork, I had a lengthy, polite conversation with him.

I asked if he had actually spoke with the Marshal (He had not.) and directed him to do so. It is always best to go to the source and solve the issue. I did not say that Marshal Voils had a good reason. Again, the complainant had not spoken to the Marshal. (And note that my advice was followed and the issue resolved.)

I also directed him with how to make a complaint on the Marshal if need be.

I did not refuse to sign any paperwork. However, it is my belief that paperwork such as this be started by the local CLEO.

If one is to use my name in a story, please be sure to use it truthfully. Again, my reason for not posting on anonymous web pages.

There are few more pro-Second Amendment law enforcement officers or Sheriff's in our Republic than I.

Should you wish to discuss this further, I may be reached at the Boone County Sheriff's Office, 765-482-1412. I will not respond to comments on the web page.

Respectfully,

Sheriff Ken Campbell

Welcome to the site! I'm sure I speak for many others here, we value your input and what you do to support our 2nd ammendment freedoms.

 

[Destro]

I seldom respond on anonymous web pages.

However, let me set the record straight.

When the gentleman called me complaining about the information he had obtained from a local police officer about the Marshal refusing to sign NFA paperwork, I had a lengthy, polite conversation with him.

I asked if he had actually spoke with the Marshal (He had not.) and directed him to do so. It is always best to go to the source and solve the issue. I did not say that Marshal Voils had a good reason. Again, the complainant had not spoken to the Marshal. (And note that my advice was followed and the issue resolved.)

I also directed him with how to make a complaint on the Marshal if need be.

I did not refuse to sign any paperwork. However, it is my belief that paperwork such as this be started by the local CLEO.

If one is to use my name in a story, please be sure to use it truthfully. Again, my reason for not posting on anonymous web pages.

There are few more pro-Second Amendment law enforcement officers or Sheriff's in our Republic than I.

Should you wish to discuss this further, I may be reached at the Boone County Sheriff's Office, 765-482-1412. I will not respond to comments on the web page.

Respectfully,

Sheriff Ken Campbell

thanks for all you do sir

 

[drillsgt]

I'm confused, is this Marshal Voils the same guy as the Chief of Police in Thornton who wouldn't originally sign?

 

[vanillagorilla]

Sheriff Campbell, thanks for your service to the community and setting the record straight from the horses mouth as it were.

 

[Farmritch]

Where does people get this crap? In reality a town marshal has the broadest statutory authority of any Indiana LEO. FWIW I can arrest the prosecutor or any police chief. Heck I don't even know what a district attorney is but we don't have them in Indiana....not that I have ever heard of. Also worth noting is the conservation officer thing is also false. A co is just like any other Indiana leo. No more authority than any other cop. Urban legend.

This is correct about Town Marshall as I was once one back in the day.