Local Prohibition of Firearms

[Somemedic]

Spoke with the Highland Chief of police this morning.

He seemed warm and receptive. An all around nice guy.

He was off monday and wasn't able to get to my email but he did read it this morning. He reviewed the laws I had cited and his own town ordinance. He told me his guy was wrong at the softball field on sunday, the ordinance and sign are out of date and need to be changed immediately. He did say I had done nothing out of line.

He also stated his supervisors would be given some quick 2nd Amendment refreshers shortly. And really that's fine, this is just a couple of laws that I know. They need to know many more and it can be overwhelming. I'm cool with that.

He asked about how I knew about carry law and I referred him to this website.He mentioned ISP's site to which I replied it was woefully out of date. He said he may steer folks to INGO after he reviewed it. Seems logical.

Thank you Chief John.

 

[CathyInBlue]

They need to know many more and it can be overwhelming.

This is the only thing I can take issue with. There is not a flood of new laws that come out every year. It's a trickle. The problem is, so many police orgs think it's such a trickle they can just jam their fingers into the spigot and stop it entirely. There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever, just a reason of being lazy, for policing agencies to not be on top of crucial changes in Indiana law that directly affect them and what they can and can't do. I guarantee you if a law came out that said police had sweeping authority to disarm anyone and everyone within 100 feet of them without reference to licensure or exemption, they would all know about and implement such a law almost immediately.

Even the smallest cop shop can afford to have just one person on pay roll expend one week at the close of a legislative session to wade through the body of laws actually passed, filter them down to what might be of interest to cops on the street, generate a report, and pass that off to the chief to then take the time to study the new laws in detail and generate memoranda to distribute to each officer under him for them to read, sign, and turn back in. It's not too much to expect that LEOs actually stay on top of changes in the laws they are expected to enforce. And even if their command structure didn't do something like what I describe above, it's still their responsibility as individual LEOs to do it themselves.

And this Highland officer is now 2 years, that's 24 months, that's 106 actual weeks out of date on that local preemption statute. That'd be grounds for a disciplinary hearing if I were running the show.

 

[mainjet]

I thought the Chief in Highland was Pete Hojnicki? Maybe you called the wrong number and "John" was just funnin' with you.

Anyway, his answer is a very respectful way to answer your concerns and it sounds like he treated you very well. That is refreshing.

 

[warthog]

The big Mall in Terre Haute near I-70 has a NO WEAPONS policy that is posted on a sign that no one can see behind the soda machines at each entrance on their "Rules of the Mall" sign. It's something like #26 and the print is very small, no sign on the door. I was asked t leave by a trio of THPD officers after Open Carrying there while trying to buy a special battery at Radio Shak. The manager called the police on me rather than simply saying something to me about the rules. Mind you there are GIANT NO SMOKING SIGNS all over the doorways. I mentioned that if just one of those signs mentioned the no weapons policy, law abiding citizens like myself would simply shop elsewhere or take our guns off before entering so the police wouldn't need to be bothered. The officers agreed but this is still how it is there, no door sign yet it it still mall policy.

 

[Expat]

The big Mall in Terre Haute near I-70 has a NO WEAPONS policy that is posted on a sign that no one can see behind the soda machines at each entrance on their "Rules of the Mall" sign. It's something like #26 and the print is very small, no sign on the door. I was asked t leave by a trio of THPD officers after Open Carrying there while trying to buy a special battery at Radio Shak. The manager called the police on me rather than simply saying something to me about the rules. Mind you there are GIANT NO SMOKING SIGNS all over the doorways. I mentioned that if just one of those signs mentioned the no weapons policy, law abiding citizens like myself would simply shop elsewhere or take our guns off before entering so the police wouldn't need to be bothered. The officers agreed but this is still how it is there, no door sign yet it it still mall policy.

Seems like most malls have a no guns policy.

 

[Hoosierdood]

Spoke with the Highland Chief of police this morning.

He reviewed the laws I had cited and his own town ordinance. He told me his guy was wrong at the softball field on sunday, the ordinance and sign are out of date and need to be changed immediately. He did say I had done nothing out of line.

The officer still effectively violated your rights by illegally enforcing an out of datel ordinance. I don't believe for a minute that Highland PD isn't aware of the crap that went on in Hammond with the lawsuits over illegal ordinances. Basically what happened here is they enforced an illegal ordinance (that shouldnt still be posted anyway) and when they were called on it, they claimed ignorance. This is much more than Heckler's Veto, because the officer was actually claiming force of law on his side.

Here's the rub... Indiana Code actually has a provision for this EXACT SCENARIO. It is spelled out specifically and lists a specific penalty for any subdivision who tries to do exactly what they did to you.

I can almost guarantee that Highland PD is laughing their butts off right now at the guy who bought their story. And I am just as sure that this officer and possibly others will continue to enforce these illegal ordinances until someone holds them accountable. You had that opportunity and you dropped the ball.

 

[Somemedic]

The officer still effectively violated your rights by illegally enforcing an out of datel ordinance. I don't believe for a minute that Highland PD isn't aware of the crap that went on in Hammond with the lawsuits over illegal ordinances. Basically what happened here is they enforced an illegal ordinance (that shouldnt still be posted anyway) and when they were called on it, they claimed ignorance. This is much more than Heckler's Veto, because the officer was actually claiming force of law on his side.

Here's the rub... Indiana Code actually has a provision for this EXACT SCENARIO. It is spelled out specifically and lists a specific penalty for any subdivision who tries to do exactly what they did to you.

I can almost guarantee that Highland PD is laughing their butts off right now at the guy who bought their story. And I am just as sure that this officer and possibly others will continue to enforce these illegal ordinances until someone holds them accountable. You had that opportunity and you dropped the ball.

Somehow I'll be alright if they got a chuckle. I really think i did ok, lost the battle, won the war, and my children dont have the fond memory of the time daddy got arrested. My guess is the officers at HPD will still be sitting through a boring 2A class and hearing what i already told them. No skin off my moccasins. Since the next time if I go there to the field there should be no question that I'm legal and a resulting arrest will lead to a phone call to an Evansville law office.

HD, I can give you directions and invite you to walk around OCing at the park. Maybe the class hasn't been given yet and you can set an example that all may follow.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

FWIW I think Somemedic's situation turned out pretty good. Litigation isn't really all that much fun.

 

[Hoosierdood]

I think I may have come across as a little "douche bag-y" and that's not what I meant to do. The point that I was trying to make is that corruption (whether it be politician, law enforcement officer, or business owner) will continue until those who are corrupt are held accountable for their actions. Seems like corruption has run amok in NWI, and in my opinion this was a chance to do something about it.

At least now if it continues, they won't be able to plead ignorance and the next guy may have an even stronger case. I just get a tad bit fired up when anyone in authority takes advantage of their position to bully others around.

 

[Bill B]

HD, I can give you directions and invite you to walk around OCing at the park. Maybe the class hasn't been given yet and you can set an example that all may follow.

Is that the park right behind the town garage on Kennedy?

 

[Somemedic]

Yes Mr B... it certainly is.

 

[CarmelHP]

I am very interested in knowing about any town, county, township, etc. (i.e., political subdivision) that is still restricting the possession of firearms on its property. If you have any current examples of this (including "no firearms" signs in local government buildings or on local government property) - anywhere in the State of Indiana - would you please let me know?

Thanks!!

Guy

The Carmel Palladium complex has "no firearms" signs on its doors.

 

[revance]

The Carmel Palladium complex has "no firearms" signs on its doors.

I have been trying to figure out who owns that property. There are definitely signs on the doors of the small theater attached to the parking garage.

 

[revance]

AFAIK Carmel still has signage at all of their parks. Not big (/) signs, but in their posted list of park rules.

 

[GIJEW]

Their excuse is that the OWNERS of the building have that 'no guns policy'.

 

[Thegeek]

This is the only thing I can take issue with. There is not a flood of new laws that come out every year. It's a trickle. The problem is, so many police orgs think it's such a trickle they can just jam their fingers into the spigot and stop it entirely. There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever, just a reason of being lazy, for policing agencies to not be on top of crucial changes in Indiana law that directly affect them and what they can and can't do. I guarantee you if a law came out that said police had sweeping authority to disarm anyone and everyone within 100 feet of them without reference to licensure or exemption, they would all know about and implement such a law almost immediately.

Even the smallest cop shop can afford to have just one person on pay roll expend one week at the close of a legislative session to wade through the body of laws actually passed, filter them down to what might be of interest to cops on the street, generate a report, and pass that off to the chief to then take the time to study the new laws in detail and generate memoranda to distribute to each officer under him for them to read, sign, and turn back in. It's not too much to expect that LEOs actually stay on top of changes in the laws they are expected to enforce. And even if their command structure didn't do something like what I describe above, it's still their responsibility as individual LEOs to do it themselves.

And this Highland officer is now 2 years, that's 24 months, that's 106 actual weeks out of date on that local preemption statute. That'd be grounds for a disciplinary hearing if I were running the show.

If we citizens are held to the strict standard that ignorance of the law is no defense, then such logic should also apply to those who's JOB it is to enforce the law.

AFAIK Carmel still has signage at all of their parks. Not big (/) signs, but in their posted list of park rules.

Relford Law Offices are in Carmel. I guess you don't s#!^ in your own back yard....

 

[Hawkeye]

The big Mall in Terre Haute near I-70 has a NO WEAPONS policy that is posted on a sign that no one can see behind the soda machines at each entrance on their "Rules of the Mall" sign. It's something like #26 and the print is very small, no sign on the door. I was asked t leave by a trio of THPD officers after Open Carrying there while trying to buy a special battery at Radio Shak. The manager called the police on me rather than simply saying something to me about the rules. Mind you there are GIANT NO SMOKING SIGNS all over the doorways. I mentioned that if just one of those signs mentioned the no weapons policy, law abiding citizens like myself would simply shop elsewhere or take our guns off before entering so the police wouldn't need to be bothered. The officers agreed but this is still how it is there, no door sign yet it it still mall policy.

Well, at least they didn't call Bart in to deal with you!

 

[sharkey]

Well, at least they didn't call Bart in to deal with you!

I thought Bart perished in that Nativity scene incident. But Sid is carrying on his legacy as best he can.

 

[buckstopshere]

Lieber State Recreation Area has signs up that say no firearms except in lawful pursuit of game.

FYI.....Lieber rec area is part of the ACOE. There's a sign as you enter to pay.

 

[warthog]

Well, at least they didn't call Bart in to deal with you!

I thought Bart perished in that Nativity scene incident. But Sid is carrying on his legacy as best he can.

Bart? Sid? Sorry, I am out of the loop on this one.