Man arrested in 'Call of Duty' 'swatting' hoax that led to fatal police shooting

[Kutnupe14]

So ... the police shoot you for moving your hand towards your waist? Pre-emptive strike-fear-or over ambition? What's wrong with waiting until you actually SEE a GUN? Terrible incident all around. Prankster should be tried for manslaughter at minimum. Officer... well there should be some repercussions for all involved.

Gernerally, that depends on the situation, and the knowledge the officer has at the time. When I first heard the story, I assumed that the guy was shot within a few feet from the officer (still not sure who did the shooting). However, like I said earlier, if the officer that shot the guy is the same person we see from the body came, that's a hell of a lot of distance. And distance and reaction correlate. IMO, at that distance, the officer (who I am assuming is in cover) had the luxury of waiting to determine if the guy actually was armed.

 

[Topshot]

The point that bothers me is that unlike the Shaver case, these SWAT are tens of yards away behind seemingly good cover. Even if this guy did present a handgun they could easily have taken him out with him only getting maybe 2 unaimed shots at best. The original post made me think they were on his porch (he opened the door for them) but they're on the other side of the street.

 

[churchmouse]

To answer that, action beats reaction every time. As a drill during my combatives instructor school we use 2 instructors. Both standing, facing each other. One will have his finger pointed like a gun, aimed at the "bad guy". This simulates an officer pointing their gun at a person. The "bad guy" points his finger like a gun and keeps it down at his side. The officer will then say "bang" when he sees the gun come up, I mean he already has the gun pointed at him right? I've never seen the good guy say bang BEFORE the bad guy was able to bring up his and say bang first. It was eye opening for me. If the bad guy in concealed, it will likely be a 50/50 shootout at best. Most of the time, police operate right of bang. The trick is to get left of bang. I'm not speaking about this particular incident, just addressing the posed question.

Thank you. That was the question. How long before the motion to reach....and actually getting the weapon on point.
I can see having it is hand (bad guy) getting it up and firing but to "Pull" from empty hand. I have not trained/drilled in this scenario. Anticipation/fear/intensity/ would all come into play I am sure.

 

[KellyinAvon]

The point that bothers me is that unlike the Shaver case, these SWAT are tens of yards away behind seemingly good cover. Even if this guy did present a handgun they could easily have taken him out with him only getting maybe 2 unaimed shots at best. The original post made me think they were on his porch (he opened the door for them) but they're on the other side of the street.

I didn't see anything to think the officer who fired wasn't on the porch. Murder/kidnap/gasoline poured in the house would bring SWAT to the door.

When everything you know about a situation is wrong bad things will happen. Our entire emergency response system is based on the information provided being factual. How many times have we heard about Police being ambushed responding to emergency calls? The information says one thing, the reality is quite different. With SWATTING the target is minding their own business/being law-abiding but the information leads the Police to think otherwise.

The anti-2A crowd has been clear that SWATTING this is an acceptable tactic to use against lawful gun owners. Until there is serious prison time given out for this unlawful conduct it will continue.

 

[churchmouse]

The anti-2A crowd has been clear that SWATTING this is an acceptable tactic to use against lawful gun owners. Until there is serious prison time given out for this unlawful conduct it will continue.

This is another thought I have on all this.

 

[dnurk]

I didn't see anything to think the officer who fired wasn't on the porch. Murder/kidnap/gasoline poured in the house would bring SWAT to the door.

When everything you know about a situation is wrong bad things will happen. Our entire emergency response system is based on the information provided being factual. How many times have we heard about Police being ambushed responding to emergency calls? The information says one thing, the reality is quite different. With SWATTING the target is minding their own business/being law-abiding but the information leads the Police to think otherwise.

The anti-2A crowd has been clear that SWATTING this is an acceptable tactic to use against lawful gun owners. Until there is serious prison time given out for this unlawful conduct it will continue.

This. And it’s not even really anti 2a folks doing the swatting. Millennial gamer types think it’s all fun and games. YouTube has tons of videos up showing swatting happening. There are even best swatting compilation videos online. There needs to be VERY stiff penalties for anyone caught calling in false reports for the purpose of swatting.

 

[Denny347]

So ... the police shoot you for moving your hand towards your waist? Pre-emptive strike-fear-or over ambition? What's wrong with waiting until you actually SEE a GUN? Terrible incident all around. Prankster should be tried for manslaughter at minimum. Officer... well there should be some repercussions for all involved.

That depends. Distance+Barrier=Time. Sometimes you might be able to if you have distance and barrier. However, if you don't, say you are just feet from him, by the time you saw the gun, your survival is solely based on the suspect's aim and dumb luck. Essentially, you are too late. Again, I'm not excusing this incident, just answering this specific question. There are specific clues to look for when dealing with someone who might be pulling a gun. Reading "Left of Bang" currently and it covers much of this. I also have friends who are experts in "Characteristics of Armed Persons" , they go around and train this stuff to other officers. The way the elbow moves when grabbing/pulling a handgun as opposed to a wallet, etc.

 

[KellyinAvon]

This. And it’s not even really anti 2a folks doing the swatting. Millennial gamer types think it’s all fun and games. YouTube has tons of videos up showing swatting happening. There are even best swatting compilation videos online. There needs to be VERY stiff penalties for anyone caught calling in false reports for the purpose of swatting.

That was one of my segway/threadjacks with my last couple sentences. More of an "oh by the way..." than having to do with Wichita.

 

[mcapo]

In the slow motion part of the video; it appears that the suspect/victim is fired upon from the opposite side of the street and just to the left of the body cam officer.

Am I seeing this correctly?

Kansas 'swatting' latest: Man arrested in Los Angeles after gamer Andrew Finch shot dead by police in Wichita | The Independent

Right about the 25 second mark...

 

[Route 45]

Good info in these articles:

Man killed by police; online gaming community blames 'swatting' | The Wichita Eagle

Man arrested in L.A. in fatal 'swatting' hoax in Wichita, Kan., has been accused of making false threats before - LA Times

Two gamers were playing Call of Duty online, and got into an argument over a $1 or $2 bet.
One gamer was in California, the other in Kansas.
The Kansas gamer gave the California gamer a false address.
The false address turned out to be an unrelated individual who doesn't even play video games.
California gamer calls police in Wichita, Kansas with the fake murder/hostage situation at the address.
California gamer might have spoofed his phone number to appear local.
California gamer has a history of doing this kind of thing, including a prior conviction. (False bomb report)
Swat shows up at the address in Wichita, 28 year old man killed while allegedly reaching for his waistband.
California gamer and Kansas gamer both tweet about the incident after the innocent man is killed.
California gamer has been arrested.

 

[Route 45]

Tweets from California gamer:

 

[churchmouse]

Tweets from California gamer:

This is the disconnect we are seeing with these douche bags. He needs to be "Shown" how responsible he is.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Good info in these articles:

Man killed by police; online gaming community blames 'swatting' | The Wichita Eagle

Man arrested in L.A. in fatal 'swatting' hoax in Wichita, Kan., has been accused of making false threats before - LA Times

Two gamers were playing Call of Duty online, and got into an argument over a $1 or $2 bet.
One gamer was in California, the other in Kansas.
The Kansas gamer gave the California gamer a false address.
The false address turned out to be an unrelated individual who doesn't even play video games.
California gamer calls police in Wichita, Kansas with the fake murder/hostage situation at the address.
California gamer might have spoofed his phone number to appear local.
California gamer has a history of doing this kind of thing, including a prior conviction. (False bomb report)
Swat shows up at the address in Wichita, 28 year old man killed while allegedly reaching for his waistband.
California gamer and Kansas gamer both tweet about the incident after the innocent man is killed.
California gamer has been arrested.

I'd not heard this part. So, did the KS gamer have reason to suspect that the CA gamer might pull this stunt? I guess it would be difficult to prove, but if he did, then he's complicit as well. It's also possible that he gave a fake address out of general caution I suppose, and maybe that's the more likely scenario.

 

[jbombelli]

Should have given out the address to the local police station. That's what I would do if I was giving out a false address.

 

[IndianaSoloMcfly]

To answer that, action beats reaction every time. As a drill during my combatives instructor school we use 2 instructors. Both standing, facing each other. One will have his finger pointed like a gun, aimed at the "bad guy". This simulates an officer pointing their gun at a person. The "bad guy" points his finger like a gun and keeps it down at his side. The officer will then say "bang" when he sees the gun come up, I mean he already has the gun pointed at him right? I've never seen the good guy say bang BEFORE the bad guy was able to bring up his and say bang first. It was eye opening for me. If the bad guy in concealed, it will likely be a 50/50 shootout at best. Most of the time, police operate right of bang. The trick is to get left of bang. I'm not speaking about this particular incident, just addressing the posed question.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FoypZyibQro

made me think of this.

 

[IndyDave1776]

This is the disconnect we are seeing with these douche bags. He needs to be "Shown" how responsible he is.

Indeed so. A .45 hole in his head would do nicely.

 

[MCgrease08]

Should have given out the address to the local police station. That's what I would do if I was giving out a false address.

Why give out any address? Why not just say, "go **** yourself?"

 

[Dr.Midnight]

Why give out any address? Why not just say, "go **** yourself?"

Are these gamers so stupid that they actually think a real address is going to be given?

 

[jbombelli]

Why give out any address? Why not just say, "go **** yourself?"

I'm giving out rope for those who are so stupid they'll actually hang themselves with it.

Are these gamers so stupid that they actually think a real address is going to be given?

Apparently so, given the facts of this particular case.

 

[Libertarian01]

Why give out any address? Why not just say, "go **** yourself?"

He was probably just being p***y right back. "Oh yeah! Well, I'm at 1234 Main St, Podunk, Indiana. Bring it! I dare you, punk! You're a loser in the game and you don't have the jewels to try it!"

Just a guess...