Man kills self during 'Zombieland” in Muncie

[wwdkd]

Sounds like the friend who handed him the gun was criminally negligent. I mean really, Who gives a gun to an intoxicated individual?

 

[Joe Williams]

It sounds like there is much more to this than what is written.

Has to be. Just doesn't make sense as written.

Why did his friend give him a gun?

 

[Joe Williams]

The military dumps them off at the curb, and drives off real fast towards the recruit pick up point. They fend for themselves after they are out. I think that is why so many Vietnam veterans are in such a bad way. Vietnam, coupled with bad decisions and more drugs out of service has left many vets without a regular life, on a regular basis.

OTOH, the vets are also responsible for seeking help, making good sound decisions too.

It's a catch 22, for both sides; but, there is so much room for improvement.

It's a shame this has happened. He probably DID need counseling.

If the vets say they need counselling or help, they stand to lose their 2nd Amendment rights. That's got to be on some of their minds.

 

[BloodEclipse]

The Television news today said it was his brother who gave him the gun. His brother had a LTCH.
The young man asked him if he had it on him and then asked to see it.
This is truly tragic.
It was the showplace which is by the mall.
I a friend of my daughter was in that theater at the time.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

It's very sad that our troops who go in harms way aren't getting the proper counseling they need.. it should be mandatory to seek counseling after a combat deployment.

The alternative.. is stuff like this.. totally unsat!

 

[Indy317]

The government really needs to step up and get these guys the help the not only need but deserve.

Folks, nothing can be done. The generation we are dealing with were raised totally different than the Vietnam, Korea, and WW2 generations.

Economics: The above had it pretty nice job wise. Back in those days, factories were still hiring and paid a decent wage. The Vietnam era vets had it harder job wise later on, as that is when more and more factories closed up, but even then, if they were smart and saved their money, they did OK in life. The military doesn't give you that many skills unless you sign up for something specific. If your IQ isn't all that, and you can't do college, you come back home knowing how to kill people with armaments. Big deal. Most of the "leadership" skills will only help those who already had it in them to lead anyway. Then you have the issue of having to move for a job. We have ex-military guys who won't want to leave "home," but in these smaller towns and cities, there are no jobs for them..at least that can pay for them to have a life.

Life issues: It seems every new generation is more about "me, myself, and I" Sexual liberation of the younger generation is what usually leads to leaving a current boyfriend/girlfriend husband/wife for another. It doesn't surprise me that many of these ex-military guys who are in their young 20s are seeing their wives and long time gfs leave them. These young ladies are not going to wait around, as they were not raised that way. Most likely have divorced parents, so if it was OK for mom and dad, why not them? Their line of thinking is likely "I deserve a husband/boyfriend who will be _here_ for _me_!" This is why I get ticked off at these multiple deployments that are needed with nation building. Wars were designed to conquer the enemy, take their land, and either kill the population of that land, make them slaves, or make them part of your own population. Now we are fighting wars to change how sovereign nations are functioning. This means decades of involvement in these lands, meaning the constant need for bodies. Since we have a voluntary military, no one complains for the most part, but I think it is driving these folks crazy. There is no time for a personal life at all when you are constantly deployed to a war zone over the course of four or five years.

The raising of older vets vs. current ones: Current vets were raised with heat at the flick of a switch. They were raised with satisfying hunger by going to the grocery store or food joint. They were raised with light at night, all by flicking a switch. Cooking food at home was done by turning a knob or pushing a button. Half our country didn't really need to hunt food to survive. They didn't need to chop cords upon cords of wood to have fire to cook food and/or heat their homes in the winter. They didn't have to constantly shovel coal to cook food and/or heat their homes. They didn't have to keep oil lanterns filled with oil to have light at night. The way humans live in 1st world countries are totally different than that in which they lived just 100 years ago. 200 years ago, things were even more hard for the human being.

You take all these issues, mix them up, and no wonder our younger war generations are having some serious issues. We have three issues within weeks here in Indiana. Don't forget the guy from Greenwood who killed his girlfriend (also from Greenwood) out in California. I know another military guy who committed suicide as well. I just really wonder if our younger generation has the mental capacity to deal with war given the way in which they are raised?

I am telling younger folks who join the military to plan on it as a 20 year career. Unless you get a specific skill set that is in demand in the private sector, and you are willing to move anywhere to make money, there is no reason to jump into the military for "skills" for a job. The only other reason is money for college. I am seeing a lot of military types at police hiring processes. Hopefully those that get hired understand the rules of policing American streets are different from that of Iraq or Afghanistan.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I just really wonder if our younger generation has the mental capacity to deal with war given the way in which they are raised?

As sad and tragic as this Muncie incident is, I think that Indy317 is on to something.

I personally believe that many of our later-life (whether it be 4 or 40 years) issues/problems stem from how we were raised to deal with them.

No one is perfect; we ALL have problems. It's how we learn to deal with them that separates us in this regard.

A young person with no real life skills yet, knowing that adolescence doesn't end (mentally) until the early/mid 20's, throw in some combat stress scenarios... It's no wonder that today's service men/women have issues.

Wanna know why PTSD is more common now than it ever has been? It's the way we're raising our youngin's.

-J-

ETA: I'd also be interested to see a study of how "religious" service members adjust vs the "non religious".

 

[MACHINEGUN]

I'd be really interested to know if the last two posters ever served in the US Armed Forces honorably.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I'd be really interested to know if the last two posters ever served in the US Armed Forces honorably.

I have not served honorably, no.

Nor dishonhorably.

But that doesn't disqualify me from making observations and having opinions.

 

[Indy317]

ETA: I'd also be interested to see a study of how "religious" service members adjust vs the "non religious".

Likely not much of a difference. I know plenty of people from various religions who sin all the time. Something about that blanket forgiveness policy.

I have not served honorably, no.

Nor dishonhorably.

But that doesn't disqualify me from making observations and having opinions.

I figured someone would say that. It is just like cops who say folks can't criticize _any_ police action unless they are cops. Or doctors who say that folks can't criticize _any_ medical action taken by a doctor because they are not doctors themselves. I just laugh at that thought process.

I haven't served in the military, but I support the military with my taxes I paid. We have had three incidents involving vets, all involving alcohol abuse, in the last three weeks. I guess there is no problem here folks and civilians should just look the other way. Obviously the military is doing a great job taking care of their vets. Stop questioning how the government is running the military. That should only be left to current or former military types.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

But that doesn't disqualify me from making observations and having opinions.

That is correct. I just had to ask.

 

[MACHINEGUN]

I haven't served in the military, but I support the military with my taxes I paid.

You should try supporting them in other ways.. not just by paying taxes.

 

[Jay]

If the vets say they need counselling or help, they stand to lose their 2nd Amendment rights. That's got to be on some of their minds.

I'll have to take exception to that. Read HR 2640.... the key word being adjudicated.... if a Veteran seeks counseling, or even voluntary commitment, there is no second amendment issue. If a court requires said counseling, or commitment, then the 2nd Amendment rights can come into play. A Statement from the Vet's mental health provider can, and has restored those 2nd Amendment rights.

I work at a VA, and see this happen DAILY.....

All Veterans are counseled prior to discharge as to their ability to seek assistance form the VA...and they have 5 years of free medical care if they were a combat Vet OIF/OEF......BUT THE VA IS NOT GONNA GO GET'EM.


Folks this is a very volitile subject for me and many other older Vets. Please don't let your self-appraised "knowledge" of the subject stand you in front of folks who have a first-hand, intimate knowledge of that same subject.

 

[Chefcook]

I find it sad that there is not more effort and compassion towards the well being of our young people that have served. What is even sadder is that we seem to tend to put them in harms way at the drop of a hat for political and financial gains, that is not what they are for...

 

[MACHINEGUN]

Folks this is a very volitile subject for me and many other older Vets. Please don't let your self-appraised "knowledge" of the subject stand you in front of folks who have a first-hand, intimate knowledge of that same subject.

Semper Fidelis!

 

[Indy317]

You should try supporting them in other ways.. not just by paying taxes.

I have. I have sent care packages and the like. I did so for my cousin and for others when drives were held.

This isn't the issue though. A care package, Christmas card from a stranger, or anything like that isn't going to change the underlying issues that I believe are totally new to this current crop of young vets. The era of coming home from war, going to work at the local factory to make a very comfortable living wage are gone.

Folks this is a very volitile subject for me and many other older Vets. Please don't let your self-appraised "knowledge" of the subject stand you in front of folks who have a first-hand, intimate knowledge of that same subject.

I will not try to stand in front of anyone who want to helps, and has more experience than me. But these guys are not on military bases or in hospitals when they are grabbing guns. They are out in the civilian world, so I feel I have a right to state my opinion of things. I only hope my opinions can be taken by folks like you and looked at with open eyes. If you feel it is totally irrelevant, fine. Either this kind of stuff happened with Vietnam vets, Korean vets, WW2 vets, etc. with the same frequency or it didn't. I am sure these incidents happened with vets from all wars, but what was the frequency back then? Is this normal behavior for vets, but we are just hearing about it more so because of the way internet news travels far, wide, and quick?

To the older vets who actually saw combat, meaning you were involved in some dangerous situations when you served (ie: Got shot at a few times, maybe had to shoot back a few times. Maybe had to kill some people, etc.). Were these actions normal and common after those former wars? Did you find it easy to go out and find a job and start living after your service? Do you think there are just a few little difference facing these young 20 something vets and your own experiences, or do you think they come back to a totally different set of circumstances? For those in their late 50s on up, do you think your generation might have been raised in a way that you could handle the stresses of life after service better than the younger generations that are aged 30 and younger? Is there any difference of after service actions from prior service between those who were forced to serve (drafted) and those who volunteered? There were some older vets that were on TV asking those with issues to come and talk to them. That sounds like a great idea, but I wonder if the situations they faced coming home were similar in terms of costs of living, ideals held by their generations on relationships, economic conditions, the concept that consuming alcohol is done by binge drinking, etc..

 

[Jay]

I will not try to stand in front of anyone who want to helps, and has more experience than me.

Thank you for that... ^

...... I have an appointment at the range..... I'll be back later.

 

[mk2ja]

All I can say is God be with his family. Anyone that takes his own life has to have serious issues...

....not any more.

 

[Joe Williams]

I'll have to take exception to that. Read HR 2640.... the key word being adjudicated.... if a Veteran seeks counseling, or even voluntary commitment, there is no second amendment issue. If a court requires said counseling, or commitment, then the 2nd Amendment rights can come into play. A Statement from the Vet's mental health provider can, and has restored those 2nd Amendment rights.

I work at a VA, and see this happen DAILY.....

All Veterans are counseled prior to discharge as to their ability to seek assistance form the VA...and they have 5 years of free medical care if they were a combat Vet OIF/OEF......BUT THE VA IS NOT GONNA GO GET'EM.


Folks this is a very volitile subject for me and many other older Vets. Please don't let your self-appraised "knowledge" of the subject stand you in front of folks who have a first-hand, intimate knowledge of that same subject.

How many of them have actually read the law? All they know is that vets have lost, and continued to lose, their rights. I personally know a couple who have refused to go to counselling for that very reason, and neither you nor I are going to convince them otherwise. Which, obviously, leaves me worried and praying for them.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

I am sure these incidents happened with vets from all wars, but what was the frequency back then? Is this normal behavior for vets, but we are just hearing about it more so because of the way internet news travels far, wide, and quick?

Military service , especially combat service changes a person forever .

You can take the person out of the military , but you cannot EVER take all of the military out of the person .

Incidents like these and ones that we here in the "world" , will never hear about have , do and will continue to happen .

Once your in , you quickly realize that your sense of "you" as an individual , is gone for the remainder of your service . You realize that your just another cog in the wheel , just another number .

Once you've had the realization that you're U.S. GOVERNMENT PROPERTY and just another tool for the machine , it can and does breed resentment and a sense of hopelessness .

Sometimes , even more so when you're forced to endure the hardships that occur during wartime .

The problem with being in the military is the un-avoidable consequences of our own humanity . We are all thinking , feeling individuals with a conscience .

Out of necessity , for a while , even years , a person can block out or "back shelf" their emotions about their actions , what they've experienced or seen .

At some point , every serviceman will deal with their emotions and it's not always the most appropriate way to handle them .

Unfortunately it can make for a sensational story and given the speed that "news" can travel it seems more prevalent now , then it used to be .