Man punches Indy TSA screener in the chest

[Blackhawk2001]

I agree the military wouldn't be the ones shooting people on sight or rounding people up for internment camps, at least not the military I served in. Most of the Marines I served with are moderate to far right conservatives and would never fire on Americans.

But, with that being said, I think many of us were surprised at the number of National Guardmen (U.S. Army for all intents and purposes) who took part in rounding up firearms and arresting citizens who refused to leave their property (or who refused to surrender their firearms) in NOLA.

I was also shocked/pissed at the number of LEO's who willingly went to NOLA to enforce unconstitutional orders given by the state government.

So who knows... perhaps things have changed enough to where a good number of those in our military would fire on citizens or round them up... God only knows they should have known better in NOLA.

I'm going to have to differ with your opinion here. The LEOs I knew who talked about going down to NOLA were going to stop the supposed "looting" and help enforce the law, not to disarm the citizens.

Additionally, with the news coverage making things sound much worse than they actually were (go figure) when the Governor declared martial law, it's not surprising that the Guard was willing to obey orders disarming the citizens who were supposedly shooting at them while they were guarding against looting. I don't condone those actions, but I'm not surprised by them.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Unfortunately foreign troops have been training on our soil for years for this very reason.

Can you give some examples, please?

 

[Blackhawk2001]

So, if the government were to declare martial law and order out the troops there'd be a difference? If there were a general (subject not to be discussed on INGO) and the government called out troops they'd be in a combat zone. As we saw in New Orleans, troops are quite willing to follow orders as given. Either soldiers follow the orders of their superior officers or they have the choice to not follow them. Which is it?

I imagine it will be a little of both, as it usually is in such circumstances. Much of it would depend upon the mutual trust of the officers and men. If Martial Law were lawfully declared (that is, by an authority with legal power to do so), military personnel might have some qualms about following orders to disarm civilians, and would certainly hesitate to carry out orders to shoot civilians who weren't shooting at them. Much would depend upon senior officers' evaluation of the legality of the orders and their purpose.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

While I abhor the actions taken by the TSA and refuse to fly commercial while such inspections are in effect, I think you folks are assigning too much imagined pleasure to the TSA agents performing the inspections (on the whole); they're just obeying the F***ed up directives they're being given because it's their job to do so. All our anger can righteously be vented on the decision-makers in the agency who've conceived and implemented this program, for whatever purpose.

Having said all that, this new invasion of our persons is understandable, if you approach airline passenger safety from the viewpoint of idiots who can stretch their universe to believe that non-invasive techniques that work are somehow "insensitive" but that physically invading persons' privates are not "insensitive". The idiots who develop policy are driven by the same false logic that believes that soldiers who have been trained to fight an enemy overseas are somehow not competent to defend themselves on a military post; they believe that making laws and regulations is the same as preventing the acts that the laws and regulations are supposed to prevent. They are morons and the the elected officials who hired/appointed them are mentally defectives - but we keep electing them anyway.

 

[henktermaat]

Someone tell the TSA it was just a "love tap".

Meanwhile, the gropers feeling everyone up remain on the streets...

If you work for the TSA, you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[thompal]

You do realize I hope that they were talking about being given orders while on deployment in a war zone. They were discussing troops given a lawful order to attack another uniformed military force which was deploying in direct opposition to their mission.

If you don't see how that's different from being given orders to shoot American civilians on American soil, then trying to have a rational discussion with you is probably not possible.

Consider the fact that the troops will not be told that there is a group of lawful US citizens that are to be fired on, confined, or have their firearms confiscated.

The troops will be fed something along the lines of: "a radical racist militia is being funded by Al Quida, and intends to bomb children and make unkind remarks about federal agents. They have threatened to either kill anyone they see or buy more guns."

Do you not remember the things that were being told to the military before and during Waco to get them involved? Also, before you think the American public would be alarmed, remember what the public was being told about Waco to keep them pacified.

 

[CarmelHP]

If Martial Law were lawfully declared (that is, by an authority with legal power to do so), military personnel might have some qualms about following orders to disarm civilians, and would certainly hesitate to carry out orders to shoot civilians who weren't shooting at them.

Please tell me how martial law is lawfully declared. There is no such provision in the Constitution which allows military dictatorship, which is what "martial law" means. There is no legal power in this country to usurp civilian authority with military control.

 

[Duncan]

Godwhacker

After talking to a couple of buddies ... we think this TSA thing could start to ratchet up .
They x-ray and do short arm checks ... people get pi$$ed .. then people protest and or punch back .. now TSA has meeting pumping up the staff and increasing the number and intrusion of checks -
( side note I have said for a long time and I even requested my congress man to implement random gynecological and body cavity checks . Looks like I got a high tech answer to my wish .. )
- so now more people get more deeply upset ...
I think most of you guys can see the circle of events ..

Now play the game with me for a minute ..
A man with his family , not seasoned travelers , go to the airport for a vaca to .. say Disney Land .... his 10 year old girl get the TSA version of a pelvic exam .. mon gets her breasts cupped and dad gets a reach around ... sound good yet ?
Maybe they protest and get sent home .. maybe they go and then return from the vacation .
Ok he's had a week or two to let if fester ... his daughter does not sleep good .. now fights at school and mom is raising hell for him to do something ...
Let's add a little more pressure .. he loses his job. Finds out the boss has not been putting money in his 401k - the wife separates - daughter no longer talks to him .
Say this happened in 1 -2 -maybe 3 weeks ... let's poor it on - CANCER with NO Medical coverage .
Sound like to much of a story .. these things do happen .
Come on keep reading ... even though you know the ending ...
JUDGMENT DAY " I want me some justice . " says dad .
He gets his AK or AR heads down to the local International Airport goes right past the agent with the infrared flashlight guns right trough the guardian at the magnetometer then takes out the only one with a gun at the police cubical .. well you get the picture . News at 11 .

For your consideration .
Duncan

In the beginning
We could hang with the dude
But it's been too much of nothing
Of that stank attitude
Now they curse your name
And there's a bounty on your face
It's your own fault daddy
Godwhacker's on the case​

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQksCxSrDLY]YouTube - Steely Dan live plays "Godwhacker"[/ame]

 

[jeremy]

Unfortunately foreign troops have been training on our soil for years for this very reason.

Really?!

How about you back this statement with a little bit of fact please...

 

[jeremy]

Please tell me how martial law is lawfully declared. There is no such provision in the Constitution which allows military dictatorship, which is what "martial law" means. There is no legal power in this country to usurp civilian authority with military control.

Sorry about this but, here you go...

Under Article I, Section 8, Clause 15, of the Constitution, Congress has the power "[t]o provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress insurrections and repel Invasions."

Article II, Section 2, Clause 1, of the Constitution declares that "[t]he President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States."

Neither constitutional provision includes a direct reference to martial law. However, the Supreme Court has interpreted both to allow the declaration of martial law by the president or Congress. On the state level, a governor may declare martial law within her or his own state. The power to do so usually is granted in the state constitution.

 

[infidel]

Really?!

How about you back this statement with a little bit of fact please...

I read it on the internet.

 

[jeremy]

I read it on the internet.

I think I need to get on Kirk's plan where I get a box of .45 for everytime that is used...

 

[MilitaryArms]

I'm going to have to differ with your opinion here. The LEOs I knew who talked about going down to NOLA were going to stop the supposed "looting" and help enforce the law, not to disarm the citizens.

What they talked about going to do, and what they wound up doing are two different things.

They forced people from their property illegally. They disarmed them.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4]YouTube - NRA: The Untold Story of Gun Confiscation After Katrina[/ame]

Additionally, with the news coverage making things sound much worse than they actually were (go figure) when the Governor declared martial law, it's not surprising that the Guard was willing to obey orders disarming the citizens who were supposedly shooting at them while they were guarding against looting. I don't condone those actions, but I'm not surprised by them.

Yeah, that right leaning media making everything sound worse than it really is. They probably fabricated all the video of police going door to door confiscating guns, forcing property owners off their property, etc. In reality all they were doing is stopping looters.

 

[MilitaryArms]

Consider the fact that the troops will not be told that there is a group of lawful US citizens that are to be fired on, confined, or have their firearms confiscated.

The troops will be fed something along the lines of: "a radical racist militia is being funded by Al Quida, and intends to bomb children and make unkind remarks about federal agents. They have threatened to either kill anyone they see or buy more guns."

Do you not remember the things that were being told to the military before and during Waco to get them involved? Also, before you think the American public would be alarmed, remember what the public was being told about Waco to keep them pacified.

What branch did you serve in?

As for Waco, what little we know indicates that a couple of hand picked special forces operators were there giving tactical advice. Some believe they were also shooters. Regardless, that's not the same thing as having the regular Army or Marines going door to door rounding people up.

 

[IndySSD]

Can you give some examples, please?

Nato troops have been training at atturbury for various activities for years.

It's not new.

Next time you see a convoy in/around Atterbury, you'll probably notice 10-20% of the soldiers in the trucks don't have US uniforms on.

 

[Rockhound]

So how many of you folks *****in' about the Testical Search Authority are going to fly for vacation over the holidays? It's understandable if you must fly to work-at least until you find another job or heavily protest in the meantime.

Going along with this, including keyboard commandoing won't cut it. It's time to make some sacrifices. And this is an EASY sacrifice to make, even if it is your job. If you can't sacrifice now, what will you sacrifice when things get even tougher?

Yes, we sacrificed. I always drive anyway, except in an emergency. And I recently had a family emergency 2000 miles away. No flying. Now it's never, period, or at least until this gets turned around to an Israeli model. On many trips, the wife flys to meet me due to time constraints and convenience. The long distance Christmas vacation we had planned has been cancelled for this year. No flying for our family. No money to the airlines. No money to resorts. No money to restaurants. No time with friends on the slopes this year. Time to starve the airlines and hospitality industry as well as make comments to elected officials.

This was an EASY sacrifice, IMHO. For those that won't sacrifice now, what will you sacrifice in the future to straighten this or a more difficult mess out?

 

[lashicoN]

What would happen if you acted completely normal during the opt-out. Let him feel you up and right as he was done, you bite the bullet and grab onto his junk? I can't imagine what they would do. "HEY, YOU CAN'T DO THAT!". That would be such an awesome lawsuit.

 

[jeremy]

How about just letting them feel you up and calling the Police and filing charges for assualt?!

 

[mrjarrell]

How about just letting them feel you up and calling the Police and filing charges for assualt?!

Brizzi would never allow the charges to go forward.

 

[jeremy]

Brizzi would never allow the charges to go forward.

I thought he was voted out?!