Masks-no discussion needed. Just vote and see where we really are.

[Rookie]

Those that choose #2 are, in essence, stating their belief that masks are "useless," when there is scientific evidence to suggest there is at least a nominal benefit.

I imagine some people chose the second option because the first and third option was further away from what they believe...

For example, if this had been an option...

Masks might be beneficial, but they're not solving the problem. Let's just get this damn thing done and over with so (almost) everyone can move on with life.

I would have chosen it.

 

[BugI02]

I am closed minded to any more Gov intervention without manipulation. It’s that simple. I more or less than that.
And yes. Pick your poison. What part of that is closed minded. I am saying choose your own path.
Where is the confusing.

"They don't want to hear your opinion, they want to hear their opinion coming out of your mouth"

 

[Mark-DuCo]

I imagine some people chose the second option because the first and third option was further away from what they believe...

Yep, There is benefit to wearing a mask, but from the numbers I am seeing where masks are mandated, the benefit is very minimal.

 

[johny5]

I imagine some people chose the second option because the first and third option was further away from what they believe...

For example, if this had been an option...

Masks might be beneficial, but they're not solving the problem. Let's just get this damn thing done and over with so (almost) everyone can move on with life.

I would have chosen it.

Exactly! Different people likely have different definitions for 'useless' in this context. I suppose that means they are "rejecting etymology, to some degree"

 

[KJQ6945]

Maybe the next poll can involve essay questions.

I would have gladly chosen, “Virtue masks are nearly useless.”

 

[churchmouse]

"They don't want to hear your opinion, they want to hear their opinion coming out of your mouth"

OMG he used black text.........

But you are correct. I think we are all guilty of this at some point yes...?????

 

[BugI02]

With respect, the "beneficial but useless" doesn't make sense to me.

Beneficial, even just nominally, makes something useful. Maybe not as useful as something else, but still useful.

How many of us have used a pocketknife instead of a screwdriver? The pocketknife isn't the best tool, but it is more beneficial than a fingernail. (Which, admittedly, has also been tried.)

"Useless" carries the meaning of "the same as" no mask. I do not believe there is any study or learned treatise that says a cloth mask is the same as no mask. And, I think we can have a consensus that a surgical mask, while not as good as an N95, is more useful than a cloth mask. But this is INGO, so maybe not.

This is just pedantic. We were given three choices, and the language was already established. Many of us think masks are of severly limited utility and represent theatre on a scale to rival TSA. Accepting that that is our viewpoint, what choice would we be most likely to select? Certainly not A or C. So B becomes the best available choice short of not responding at all. The conclusion you should be drawing is that perhaps the population of mask skeptics is larger than you believed possible, not combing the hair of the available responses looking for larval lice

Or maybe do your own poll and amend B to be more accurate, perhaps 'I believe masks to be of some finite, small but non-zero utility in the current pandemic' - but that will likely just draw a higher percentage of responses to the option you can't accept

 

[johny5]

Reading issue again?

That's the 3rd option. The second one is... and this is copy/paste, "I believe masks are useless" and for the sake of completeness, the first option is, "I believe masks are beneficial but should be voluntary."

Those that choose #2 are, in essence, stating their belief that masks are "useless," when there is scientific evidence to suggest there is at least a nominal benefit.

Not at all. I was responding to what you actually wrote (this time )

As others have already pointed out, definitions of 'useless' and 'beneficial' are likely to be varied. To decide that someone is 'rejecting science', in part or in whole, because they hold a different standard for 'useless' and/or 'beneficial'...well, you know...

 

[KJQ6945]

And this is why they write entire books, full of lawyer jokes.

 

[BugI02]

...
Some people are skeptical of the earth's roundness. That doesn't make their position scientifically sound.

The earth is not round, it is a spheroid (3 dimensional) and varies from spherical by 0.3356%

Argument style seem at all ... familiar

 

[johny5]

The conclusion you should be drawing is that perhaps the population of mask skeptics is larger than you believed possible, not combing the hair of the available responses looking for larval lice

 

[dusty88]

I don't think they will come up with an effective vaccine any time soon if ever. So my question is, what's our other options? Walk around, afraid of our own shadow or maybe allow our bodies the opportunity to do what they're supposed to do and try to fight it. I choose option B. If I get it, I get it. If I die, so be it. I don't have a death wish, but I'm not interested in going through life afraid of the boogeyman.

I would theoretically agree that the idea of imposing strict measures "until we get a vaccine" is not a solid nor appropriately flexible plan.

Countries have been successful that brought the disease transmission down to a baseline. What's that baseline? the point where they can keep up with testing, so that many of the people exposed know they are exposed and can self-isolate. In other words, prevent the transmission rate (R0) from going above 1.

In other words I think we keep the outbreak down to the point where
-anyone critically affected can get the level of ICU care you would consider a standard in the US
-testing is manageable enough to have a chance to contact exposed people before the transmission rate picks up
-the level is low enough that you can (mostly) keep it out of the hospitals (this is also going to depend on rapid, widespread testing available to each hospital and good PPE supplies)

Figuring out how to live with it, if that's what we have to do, might mean something different as we learn more. If masking helps, then we do that for a while.

The school that my kids used to attend said they have upgraded their HVAC system to result in a complete air exchange every 10 minutes. I've also heard of UV treatment in HVAC. I have no idea if that works, but the point is there are probably solutions to manage this if we have to.

It's a good idea in any case to build up PPE and to be more prepared for pandemics. Our dense populations and international travel makes us susceptible to more of them.

 

[Rookie]

BTW, my opinion is based on the insane bull**** that I deal with on a daily basis. If management sees you not wearing your mask, they will threaten to write you up. It doesn't matter than nobody is within 50 feet of you. Meanwhile, people that are kung-flu positive are shipped out, but the people who were in close (less than 6 feet) contact are fine as long as they weren't in contact longer than 30 minutes. I was unaware that viruses work off a stop watch.

They want smokers to sit facing each other blowing their smoke and breath at an 18 inch high piece of plexiglass. If you are standing 15 feet away, they threaten to write you up for violating safety protocol. Meanwhile, the work area that the kung-flu positive person was working in is untreated for 12-24 hours. Even then, it's not cleaned to their standards, but that's okay.

If you're eating, they want you to pull down your mask, take a bite, put your mask back on while you chew. Meanwhile, machines that are clearly marked "quarantined due to covid-19" are being run.

In my opinion, masks are being used to exercise control. They aren't being used to fight the virus. If they were, there wouldn't be such hypocrisy in how it's being handled. Because of my observations, I'm not interested in playing along. I'm sure someone will come up with the smart remark, "you can find another job". I'm 9 years away from a full pension, so no thank you - I'll continue to raise hell and make them regret every time they have to deal with me.

 

[BugI02]

OMG he used black text.........

But you are correct. I think we are all guilty of this at some point yes...?????

Those aren't my words, thus they are not tealified

I always quote others in black or the default color**

**For TLex, 'always' is accepted to mean 'to the extent I can remember' not that no contrary examples may exist somewhere -especially from before I even adopted tealification

 

[Rookie]

I would theoretically agree that the idea of imposing strict measures "until we get a vaccine" is not a solid nor appropriately flexible plan.

Countries have been successful that brought the disease transmission down to a baseline. What's that baseline? the point where they can keep up with testing, so that many of the people exposed know they are exposed and can self-isolate. In other words, prevent the transmission rate (R0) from going above 1.

In other words I think we keep the outbreak down to the point where
-anyone critically affected can get the level of ICU care you would consider a standard in the US
-testing is manageable enough to have a chance to contact exposed people before the transmission rate picks up
-the level is low enough that you can (mostly) keep it out of the hospitals (this is also going to depend on rapid, widespread testing available to each hospital and good PPE supplies)

Figuring out how to live with it, if that's what we have to do, might mean something different as we learn more. If masking helps, then we do that for a while.

The school that my kids used to attend said they have upgraded their HVAC system to result in a complete air exchange every 10 minutes. I've also heard of UV treatment in HVAC. I have no idea if that works, but the point is there are probably solutions to manage this if we have to.

It's a good idea in any case to build up PPE and to be more prepared for pandemics. Our dense populations and international travel makes us susceptible to more of them.

We haven't come close to straining the hospitals even before the mask hysteria began. So, why are masks all of a sudden so important?

Testing is a joke with multiple false positives and multiple deaths being falsely attributed to kung-flu. At what point do we realize we can't rely on them?

My opinion based on experience from 20+ years ago is that UV filters are snake oil. Things may have changed since then, but I'm not interested enough to check. Churchmouse might have more insight.

 

[T.Lex]

Exactly! Different people likely have different definitions for 'useless' in this context. I suppose that means they are "rejecting etymology, to some degree"

And science.

But, to your point, the polling statement is asking about belief. People are free to believe all sorts of non-sciency type stuff.

 

[T.Lex]

We haven't come close to straining the hospitals even before the mask hysteria began. So, why are masks all of a sudden so important?

Here in Indiana, that is true.

If I were in a locale where ICU use is maxed out, I may have a different view of mask mandates. But, at that point, I think the emergency powers of .gov would have a legitimate purpose.

Also, I support a business owner's right to mandate masks. That's a function of having the right to determine what happens on your property.

And, while I haven't researched it extensively, what little reading I have done suggests that the more modern UV disinfecting protocols actually work pretty well against this. But, I can't say I have an informed opinion on that just yet.

 

[Rookie]

Here in Indiana, that is true.

If I were in a locale where ICU use is maxed out, I may have a different view of mask mandates. But, at that point, I think the emergency powers of .gov would have a legitimate purpose.

Also, I support a business owner's right to mandate masks. That's a function of having the right to determine what happens on your property.

And, while I haven't researched it extensively, what little reading I have done suggests that the more modern UV disinfecting protocols actually work pretty well against this. But, I can't say I have an informed opinion on that just yet.

Where in the country have hospitals been overwhelmed?

I have never argued that businesses don't have the right to decide dress code, have I?

 

[JettaKnight]

The earth is not round, it is a speroid (3 dimensional) and varies from spherical by 0.3356%

Argument style seem at all ... familiar

I think you just proved that you'll argue about anything.

 

[T.Lex]

Where in the country have hospitals been overwhelmed?

I have never argued that businesses don't have the right to decide dress code, have I?

My understanding was in AZ - here's a quick google result:
https://www.azfamily.com/news/conti...cle_0a3b5c3a-bfe6-11ea-a6a4-db49caf2de41.html

But, it is also a hypothetical. If ICUs get maxed out, that could change the calculus, at least for me.

And I wasn't saying you said that about businesses, I was just throwing it out there because it is an extension of the .gov issue. That wasn't part of the poll, obviously.