Mayor Hogsett, IMPD, Use of Force Policy Changes (Implicit Bias Training)

[Fargo]

I understand the appearance, but we both know that the mayor has more information, regarding this issue than the rest of us. The fact that he called in the Feds to investigate, to me, seems indicative of a political CYA action given how he thinks this will play out (which isn't in favor of the officers).

I think the mayor is deeply in the appearance/CYA game at the moment. However, that could be for multiple opposing reasons. If he thinks it will play out in favor of the officers, this could be a start to get in front of those that will be very upset. I'm just not a fan of these decisions being made without a given basis.

 

[bwframe]

If the cops were in the wrong, just say it.

Don't come off sounding like other big city liberal politicians that end up looking like fools when juries rule in favor of officers. And don't paint all of our officers as racially biassed by changing programs because of ONE questionable situation. Will the next thing be agreeing to an outrageous settlement before the criminal trial?

Are you Marion County people happy you elected this liberal political hack now?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Raise your hand if you really believe all this policy review and change is a result of the last shooting...that it's all been put together in roughly 2 weeks.

Those who raised their hand, please attend my Arizona real estate seminar. I'm also having a sale on bridges.

 

[Fargo]

Raise your hand if you really believe all this policy review and change is a result of the last shooting...that it's all been put together in roughly 2 weeks.

Those who raised their hand, please attend my Arizona real estate seminar. I'm also having a sale on bridges.

I don't know any of the details, but would I be correct that there has been an existing vendor/contractor drive going on?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I don't know any of the details, but would I be correct that there has been an existing vendor/contractor drive going on?

*shrugs* maybe.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

It's just a coincidence the mayor announced this new training this week.

 

[JTScribe]

Raise your hand if you really believe all this policy review and change is a result of the last shooting...that it's all been put together in roughly 2 weeks.

Those who raised their hand, please attend my Arizona real estate seminar. I'm also having a sale on bridges.

Oh, I guarantee you they were looking to implement this since Hogsett was elected. Dems gonna Dem.

 

[Indycar:v1.1]

Mayor Hog**** has shown his true colors. He's thrown IMPD under the bus wheels and the mayors office is bending
over and giving the control of Metro Indy to the Black voters of Crown Hill Cemetery.

This will get him re-elected and turn Marion Cty into Detroit!

 

[DRob]

History tells me the gummint wheels, of any kind, do not turn that quickly. From what I see/hear, there have been no changes. Only people saying that there will be some changes.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I think he cares. He's just wrong about what works and what doesn't. He's also a politician who is listening to the cries of a large portion of his constituency that says, "Do something!" He just doesn't know what to do, so he does what he thinks is right, which doesn't work.

My mother was a liberal, and I guarantee you she cared. She would have applauded this. She was a very smart and loving person, but she did not understand that these practices aren't a real solution. They are a feel good solution.

That's my humble 2c.

I can easily believe this of your mother along with a great many other rank and file liberals who focus on good intentions to the neglect of the cold hard truth. I don't believe for a second that Hogsh*t is that naive or is filling any position other than that of a cynical politician who knows how to play to the crowd he cares about. Further, people like him build their political careers on exploiting the emotions of people like your mother without putting an ounce of belief into their actual perspective.

I apparently have missed out on the information that led to this decision, and the other information that makes this decision universally disliked. Anybody care to share the intimate information that ya'll and the Mayor are holding back? From Tb's post, it is indicated that following the chase and crash, officers fired at the car. Well, we know no weapon was found... so can we assume there wasn't one? If we do assume there was no weapon, I'd like to ask how comfortable you guys are with shooting people after a vehicle has crashed? There may be more, but with that relevation it has become a tad bit more difficult to justify the deceased's death, if his injuries were caused when officers fired at a crashed vehicle.... and no weapon was found in the aftermath.

If the illustrious mayor actually had any real information that you seem to believe he has, then the ongoing investigation including and especially that by the FBI that he requested would necessarily be completely unnecessary. The question upon which this entire investigation rests is that of whether or not the officers involved had reason to believe that the decedent was preparing to draw a weapon on them. Until that question is resolved, systemic 'solutions' are premature and likely have little if anything to do with reality beyond the mayor's political agenda and convenience.

I understand the appearance, but we both know that the mayor has more information, regarding this issue than the rest of us. The fact that he called in the Feds to investigate, to me, seems indicative of a political CYA action given how he thinks this will play out (which isn't in favor of the officers).

Again, if he had enough super secret information not available to the rest of us to justify implementing a 'solution', then he already has enough information that further investigation is unnecessary.

If the cops were in the wrong, just say it.

Don't come off sounding like other big city liberal politicians that end up looking like fools when juries rule in favor of officers. And don't paint all of our officers as racially biassed by changing programs because of ONE questionable situation. Will the next thing be agreeing to an outrageous settlement before the criminal trial?

Are you Marion County people happy you elected this liberal political hack now?

I feel comfortable in saying that Hogsh*t doesn't care about the questionable situation beyond it usefulness in doing what he wants to do in the first place. He is so bad about political showboating that it occurred to me that had I been a juror in one of the cases in which he served as federal prosecutor with the press fanfare he so dearly loved, I would have considered the fact that he stood as the accuser to constitute at least reasonable doubt in and of itself, if not stand as evidence of innocence. Expect more of the leftist playbook to follow.

My guess is that any Marion County people reading this voted against him in the first place.

Raise your hand if you really believe all this policy review and change is a result of the last shooting...that it's all been put together in roughly 2 weeks.

Those who raised their hand, please attend my Arizona real estate seminar. I'm also having a sale on bridges.

Oh, I believe that this was spontaneous just like I would never believe that the Dems had drafts of new gun control laws in the drawer ready to dust off as soon as an event like Sandy Hook takes place.

It's a shame I have spent down my discretionary funds. I could use a good deal on a bridge!

Oh, I guarantee you they were looking to implement this since Hogsett was elected. Dems gonna Dem.

 

[SMiller]

I was born 100 years to late, once upon a time the people would drag a man out into the street and make him answer for his sins.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I was born 100 years to late, once upon a time the people would drag a man out into the street and make him answer for his sins.

Not even sure where this fits in with this thread.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Oh, I guarantee you they were looking to implement this since Hogsett was elected. Dems gonna Dem.

Ok, and what it was? What's your issue with it? If this training had of prevented the death of the person were talking about (assuming this was a bad shoot), what's the opposition to it? Maybe you think this training isn't needed, and it might not be. However, I would and it astonishing that IMPD (or any other area agency), doesn't have numerous officers with implicit biases, concerning some of the people they serve, and could not benefit from recognizing it.
I'll remind you that implicit bias is often used against legal carriers of firearms. You can find several post concerning how some officers should be trained to deal with carriers. Do you (speaking generally) still hold that opinion, or do you think that the biases against some, where they are upset when they are disarmed, is worse than the biases that lead to people getting shot.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Mayor Hog**** has shown his true colors. He's thrown IMPD under the bus wheels and the mayors office is bending
over and giving the control of Metro Indy to the Black voters of Crown Hill Cemetery.

This will get him re-elected and turn Marion Cty into Detroit!

Speaking of "true colors."

 

[Denny347]

I apparently have missed out on the information that led to this decision, and the other information that makes this decision universally disliked. Anybody care to share the intimate information that ya'll and the Mayor are holding back? From Tb's post, it is indicated that following the chase and crash, officers fired at the car. Well, we know no weapon was found... so can we assume there wasn't one? If we do assume there was no weapon, I'd like to ask how comfortable you guys are with shooting people after a vehicle has crashed? There may be more, but with that relevation it has become a tad bit more difficult to justify the deceased's death, if his injuries were caused when officers fired at a crashed vehicle.... and no weapon was found in the aftermath.

The investigations, I hope, will answer those questions. I don't think that the "reforms" are really what is getting under people's skin as we do this stuff anyway, under different names, and most of this is just smoke and mirrors. However, you will find that most of the problems comes from the timing and tone of the press conference. The overall tone was painting us as racist, or at least heavily biased, and the timing comes at the beginning of the FBI investigation. While the Mayor likely has more information than we do. What he DOESN'T have is a completed report in front of him. While he SAYS these recommendations are not connected to the shooting, his TIMING says otherwise. It would be folly for anyone else to make recommendations based on an incomplete investigation with incomplete information. Yet, the Mayor is doing just that. There is only one reason for this, politics. There is nothing we like less that being thrown under the bus for politics' sake. Even if this ends up being a bad shoot, these recommendations could have waited until at least ONE investigation was completed. We are an understaffed, overworked dept who get little support from those that could change this. So frustrating.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Ok, and what it was? What's your issue with it? If this training had of prevented the death of the person were talking about (assuming this was a bad shoot), what's the opposition to it? Maybe you think this training isn't needed, and it might not be. However, I would and it astonishing that IMPD (or any other area agency), doesn't have numerous officers with implicit biases, concerning some of the people they serve, and could not benefit from recognizing it.
I'll remind you that implicit bias is often used against legal carriers of firearms. You can find several post concerning how some officers should be trained to deal with carriers. Do you (speaking generally) still hold that opinion, or do you think that the biases against some, where they are upset when they are disarmed, is worse than the biases that lead to people getting shot.

1. The problem issue here is the imposition of a 'solution' before determining what the problem is. Would you tolerate your doctor prescribing some random medication and then telling you to come back in a week and he will figure out what your health problem is? This is no different.

2. This does not really compare with dealing with armed citizens. Knowing that you signed on to uphold the law equally regardless of the persons involved does not require training. It requires understanding of right and wrong, which you can't train into people past childhood under most circumstances. Conversely, dealing with the issue of not crapping your pants and overreacting when you see a gun or think there is a gun even in the absence of any hostility whatsoever and shooting someone can be addressed with better training.

This leaves me with the conclusion that Hogsh*t is lying about the non-connection. This is something he wanted to do for his own reasons and he now has an opportunity where it is not only politically supported, but rather demanded from some subsets of the population, so he can score political points plus do what he wanted in the first place at the expense of IMPD. Even if this turns out as a bad shoot, which I am inclined to doubt given the character reference these officers got from one of our own (Frank-N-Stein), that can be counted as no better than fortuitous luck for the mayor given that he has already made this decision in the absence of a completed investigation.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Ok, and what it was? What's your issue with it? If this training had of prevented the death of the person were talking about (assuming this was a bad shoot)

Why is that the assumption?

You got butthurt over "mean streets of Carmel" but seem to have no issue assuming this is a bad shoot?

Maybe when it's all over me and you can get together for some airsoft and I'll run you through the scenario a few times and we'll see how often you shoot me and why. That assumes you'd actually meet me this time.

 

[phylodog]

The mere mention of implicit bias when it comes to this situation is insulting, or should be, to any police officer worth a squirt of ****.

There have been many, many police shootings in which an unarmed person was shot and the officer's decisions were determined to be reasonable and lawful. There may be plenty who do not like it but that does not change the rules. You don't have to have a weapon t be legally shot by the police or anyone else for that matter.

Short of a precious few examples, it is pretty easy to not get shot by the police in this country.

I am 500% in favor of holding police officers accountable for their uses of force. It sure would be nice to see people willing to hold suspects accountable for their actions that result in those uses of force as well. I understand this stance is considered extremely radical to many. How many of the sensationalized police shootings which made national news in recent years were determined to be bad shoots? Oh yeah, not supposed to mention that, might interfere with the narrative.

 

[IndyDave1776]

The mere mention of implicit bias when it comes to this situation is insulting, or should be, to any police officer worth a squirt of ****.

There have been many, many police shootings in which an unarmed person was shot and the officer's decisions were determined to be reasonable and lawful. There may be plenty who do not like it but that does not change the rules. You don't have to have a weapon t be legally shot by the police or anyone else for that matter.

Short of a precious few examples, it is pretty easy to not get shot by the police in this country.

I am 500% in favor of holding police officers accountable for their uses of force. It sure would be nice to see people willing to hold suspects accountable for their actions that result in those uses of force as well. I understand this stance is considered extremely radical to many. How many of the sensationalized police shootings which made national news in recent years were determined to be bad shoots? Oh yeah, not supposed to mention that, might interfere with the narrative.

In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act

I think Orwell called this one!

 

[VUPDblue]

"implicit bias" training = 8.5 hours of sitting in a classroom being told how we're closet racists and how we need to go about fixing that for the good of the department. What a way to motivate a bunch of cops. What could go wrong?