More FBI Shenanigans

[chipbennett]

Stop strawmanning this. If you'd drop the emotions for a moment and actually read what I've been posting, you'd see how ludicrous this statement is.

Here's my original statement, I feel you stopped reading it when you got to something you didn't like:

Yeah, I have zero emotional investment in this situation or the discussion about it, and I'm not sure why you'd imply otherwise.

Also, I'm not the one strawmanning here. In your own quote, the only two options you presented were "do nothing" and "no-knock raid". Your quote:

but again if they don't investigate and it happens, we are all over them for not doing their job. As much as I despise them they are in a pickle with people like us. They cannot win. But doing dumb things like a no-knock at 6am on a 70yo man isn't the smartest move either.

They only "cannot win" if those are their only two options for course of action.

And the irony here:

again, drop the emotion. I was asking a legitimate question to clarify your position. But you need to stop the strawman ****. I think if you'd take a breath, go back and read through what I've said REPEATEDLY you'd see we probably agree more than not.

I fully realize that we agree that the latter option is unacceptable. Where I take issue is your implication that I think "do nothing" ("if they don't investigate and it happens"; "Do you think he should have at least been interviewed to determine his level of severity? Or should he have been ignored?") would be appropriate. Given that I had stated, several times, to the contrary here in the thread, I don't view your question as being legitimate.

So, how was I being emotional by holding you to the same standard regarding what I have written that you demand of me regarding what you have written?

 

[bobzilla]

Yeah, I have zero emotional investment in this situation or the discussion about it, and I'm not sure why you'd imply otherwise.

Also, I'm not the one strawmanning here. In your own quote, the only two options you presented were "do nothing" and "no-knock raid". Your quote:

They only "cannot win" if those are their only two options for course of action.

And the irony here:

I fully realize that we agree that the latter option is unacceptable. Where I take issue is your implication that I think "do nothing" ("if they don't investigate and it happens"; "Do you think he should have at least been interviewed to determine his level of severity? Or should he have been ignored?") would be appropriate. Given that I had stated, several times, to the contrary here in the thread, I don't view your question as being legitimate.

So, how was I being emotional by holding you to the same standard regarding what I have written that you demand of me regarding what you have written?

there was no implication, hence the question. but I'm done. I am not and did not state that the only two options are fo nothing or no knock. No idea where you are getting that unless you're reading too quickly and missing the fine print. You are on a tear for some reason and I'm trying to be straight forward so there is no confusion. For that you get pissy. Fine.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Important thread here. Try to keep it more on simmer and less on boil.

Or as Jules said in Pulp Fiction, "EVERYBODY BE COOL!!"

 

[Creedmoor]

Someone need a Snickers this morning?

 

[chipbennett]

there was no implication, hence the question. but I'm done. I am not and did not state that the only two options are fo nothing or no knock. No idea where you are getting that unless you're reading too quickly and missing the fine print. You are on a tear for some reason and I'm trying to be straight forward so there is no confusion. For that you get pissy. Fine.

 

[Ark]

I remember a time when crazy people that didn't want to come out of there house and the police would station a few officers around the house, turn off the utilities and try to convince them to surrender. Those tactics have been replaced with armored battery tanks, explosives and dozen armed men that will shoot the first thing that twitches when they enter.

This is standard LE treatment for pretty much everyone except white, male Trump supporters.

This fool did everything possible to attract attention but it certainly looks like, in typical FBI fashion, this was less investigate/arrest and more kill team.

 

[91FXRS]

So how many shots did he get off? I mean he said he would be waiting with a gun and they tried ramming his door in unsuccessfully so they must have been under a rain of fire from this guy....right?

 

[chipbennett]

Additional reporting seems to indicate that the Fibbies did announce their presence. So, if true, the raid was the more bog-standard SWAT style rather than a no-knock raid.

I don't think that changes the analysis all that much (why would a SWAT raid be required for warrant service in this situation?), but in order to be accurate, it shouldn't be called a "no-knock" raid, if true.

I still have many questions. Robertson was "charged under seal" with three felonies the day before, so I assume the warrant being served was an arrest warrant. Without doing more digging, I haven't confirmed that, though. Biden made a scheduled visit to Salt Lake City later that day. Robertson lived in Provo, which is 40 minutes away by car. If Robertson's threats were indeed credible, why not just apprehend him when he left his house to go carry out his threats? The guy was reportedly a frail, 74-year old man who walked using a cane (walking stick?). He wasn't exactly a threat to outrun FBI agents.

The FBI's use of force here was entirely unnecessary and unjustified, and led directly to the completely avoidable outcome.

(Side note to the keyboard warriors out there: don't do what this guy did. Even out of "frustration." Threats against POTUS and federal agents are taken seriously. Could Robertson have been convicted on the charges? Maybe, maybe not. But don't lay the groundwork to create a suicide-by-cop scenario, whether the LEO in question were in the right or in the wrong in their tactics.)

 

[Jaybird1980]

Additional reporting seems to indicate that the Fibbies did announce their presence. So, if true, the raid was the more bog-standard SWAT style rather than a no-knock raid.

I don't think that changes the analysis all that much (why would a SWAT raid be required for warrant service in this situation?), but in order to be accurate, it shouldn't be called a "no-knock" raid, if true.

I still have many questions. Robertson was "charged under seal" with three felonies the day before, so I assume the warrant being served was an arrest warrant. Without doing more digging, I haven't confirmed that, though. Biden made a scheduled visit to Salt Lake City later that day. Robertson lived in Provo, which is 40 minutes away by car. If Robertson's threats were indeed credible, why not just apprehend him when he left his house to go carry out his threats? The guy was reportedly a frail, 74-year old man who walked using a cane (walking stick?). He wasn't exactly a threat to outrun FBI agents.

The FBI's use of force here was entirely unnecessary and unjustified, and led directly to the completely avoidable outcome.

(Side note to the keyboard warriors out there: don't do what this guy did. Even out of "frustration." Threats against POTUS and federal agents are taken seriously. Could Robertson have been convicted on the charges? Maybe, maybe not. But don't lay the groundwork to create a suicide-by-cop scenario, whether the LEO in question were in the right or in the wrong in their tactics.)

Does announcing their presence mean yelling FBI as they are swinging the ram? If so that's not much of an announcement.

I agree that it appears to be overboard and I think it was on purpose to make a show of it.

 

[KLB]

Does announcing their presence mean yelling FBI as they are swinging the ram? If so that's not much of an announcement.

I agree that it appears to be overboard and I think it was on purpose to make a show of it.

They give ya 15 seconds before they swing.

 

[indyblue]

FBI Kills Yet Another American in His Own Home, This Time It's a '100% Disabled Veteran'

"He didn't have a weapon on him. He was just trying to get out of the house because it was filled with tear gas."

www.westernjournal.com

For at least the second time this month, the Federal Bureau of Investigation has killed an American in his own home. What makes the most recent slaying so heinous is the status of the suspect — a man his family described as a completely disabled veteran who was unarmed when he was gunned down.


On Aug. 16, FBI agents executed the fatal arrest operation at a residence in Henderson, Tennessee.


The noise from the early morning operation woke at least one neighbor, who witnessed some of the chaos of the deadly raid.

 

[maxipum]

WTAF

 

[Expat]

Two in a month, does that qualify as a spree killer?

 

[DadSmith]

FBI Kills Yet Another American in His Own Home, This Time It's a '100% Disabled Veteran'

"He didn't have a weapon on him. He was just trying to get out of the house because it was filled with tear gas."

www.westernjournal.com

Does the FBI have to tell the local sheriff about a raid before they do it?

 

[AndreusMaximus]

FBI Kills Yet Another American in His Own Home, This Time It's a '100% Disabled Veteran'

"He didn't have a weapon on him. He was just trying to get out of the house because it was filled with tear gas."

www.westernjournal.com

And the family members know he was unarmed based on what?

99% of these cases where the family members are blathering on about "Oh, he was just such a gentle teddy bear and 100% disabled and totally didn't have no gun and didn't do nothing wrong" end up having the body cam released showing an apparently able-bodied young man clearly armed and threatening officers at the time he was shot. We're used to seeing that song and dance routine with inner-city BLM-type thugs, and our (at least most of us on this site, I think) normal reaction in those cases is to completely discount the family's words, and predict that the evidence will show the complete opposite. So in this case, I think I'm still going to have to wait until more evidence/details come out before I jump to believing the family's claims.

Now, that being said, I'm not going to jump straight into trying to absolve the FBI, either, as I mistakenly did on the last of these such cases. Details still seem extremely sparse. What was the arrest warrant for? What evidence did they have that he was an immediate threat? And why on earth could they find no way of picking him up other than a surprise early-morning raid?

Being as it's the FBI, I wouldn't be surprised if we never get either bodycam footage, nor more meaningful details or evidence on what actually happened. And if that turns out to be the case, I think I'll take that as basically an admission by the FBI that the family's claims are true.

 

[bobzilla]

FBI Kills Yet Another American in His Own Home, This Time It's a '100% Disabled Veteran'

"He didn't have a weapon on him. He was just trying to get out of the house because it was filled with tear gas."

www.westernjournal.com

Here's the obit:
https://quadcitiesdaily.com/theodore-joseph-deschler/

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

Okay, upon further reflection maybe I am thinking about this one wrong.

I just can't help but shake the feeling that if the FBI had done this to one of the many nutjobs threatening to kill Donald Trump during his presidency, the general conservative consensus would be to cheer for the FBI and say the nutjob got what he deserved. And maybe it was that thought that made me have a knee-jerk reaction to thinking the way I did.

I do see your point about no-knock raids, though.

On the other hand, I also find myself often disagreeing with the way many people seem to poo-poo death threats and the like because they're "just words." I tend to hold the unpopular opinion that when someone threatens to kill another person, they should be taken at their word, and no one should be required to risk their life finding out if the threat was made in earnest, or was just "bloviating."

That notwithstanding, I do think I agree with you in general about no-knock raids. I guess I'm finding myself with with contradicting principles regarding this whole situation, and I'm not quite sure now what I think the correct answer is.

You'll never get anywhere around here by challenging your own assumptions and engaging in critical thinking like that.

 

[jwamplerusa]

Ramaswamy may have a good idea. Obliterate the FBI, and move limited small specialized parts of it to the US Marshals.

I increasingly think big chunks of the FBI have gone rogue. Neither the FBI or ATF can be reformed.

 

[rhamersley]

FBI Seizes Jaiden's Backpack In Predawn Raid

COLORADO SPRINGS, CO — A quiet community was thrown into chaos in the early hours of Wednesday morning, as a tactical team from the Federal Bureau of Investigation staged a pre-dawn raid at the home of 6th-grader Jaiden Rodriguez. Reports indicated the boy's backpack, which has a Gadsden flag...

babylonbee.com

School officials advised Jaiden to find a new, less-threatening backpack before returning to school. "He can choose from Pride patches, BLM patches, even a sickle and hammer patch," a member of the school's administrative staff explained. "However, a backpack displaying an important image from American history has no business at an American school."

 

[bobzilla]

FBI Seizes Jaiden's Backpack In Predawn Raid

COLORADO SPRINGS, CO — A quiet community was thrown into chaos in the early hours of Wednesday morning, as a tactical team from the Federal Bureau of Investigation staged a pre-dawn raid at the home of 6th-grader Jaiden Rodriguez. Reports indicated the boy's backpack, which has a Gadsden flag...

babylonbee.com

It’s funny but I guarantee you that family is now on the feebs radar as an extremist hate group.