My Three-legged Deer - We call her Gimpy

[two70]

My dogs are animals, and many "died of old age" WITHOUT slowly starving to death, and their teeth were fine. Where do you get your information?

Your dogs are domestic animals and being cared for by you, they have absolutely no bearing on wild animals. Wild animals are not pets, nor are they humans. Nature is cruel.

Here's an good article on deer aging from the QDMA and the following excerpt: [FONT=&amp]Many of the researchers we spoke with said a deer’s teeth simply wear out at some point in their late teens, leading to an inability to eat effectively and declining health[/FONT][FONT=&amp].

[/FONT]If you really want to educate yourself on the subject I suggest reading the works of Leonard Lee Rue III, Dr. Grant Woods, Charles Alsheimer, John J. Ozoga, Larry Weishuhn, Grant Woods and other prominent deer biologists (many of which are mentioned in this article) as I have.

 

[mom45]

I haven't seen any evidence of this doe suffering or starving. She is well fed and produces twins or triplets every year. Nobody said nature was kind, but she has lived a long time without suffering.

I have seen some deer that have suffered horribly at the hands of "hunters". I am not anti-hunting by any means and have eaten plenty of venison over the years, but we do have at least one neighbor who claims to be a hunter who maims more deer than he recovers. The last doe he shot that I found on our property after he lost her due to no blood trail, suffered horribly after he shot her in the rump with an arrow and she laid there and obviously thrashed around for some time before she passed. That was just ONE of his lost deer that we recovered by following the buzzards a couple of days after he attempted to locate them. Others ran around with arrows broke off in their necks or shoulders or were gut shot. The one with the arrow in her rump was said to be shot in the ribs...he said his aim was just a little farther back than intended, but he was sure it was a good hit.

 

[Restroyer]

Your dogs are domestic animals and being cared for by you, they have absolutely no bearing on wild animals. Wild animals are not pets, nor are they humans. Nature is cruel.

Here's an good article on deer aging from the QDMA and the following excerpt: [FONT=&amp]Many of the researchers we spoke with said a deer’s teeth simply wear out at some point in their late teens, leading to an inability to eat effectively and declining health[/FONT][FONT=&amp].

[/FONT]If you really want to educate yourself on the subject I suggest reading the works of Leonard Lee Rue III, Dr. Grant Woods, Charles Alsheimer, John J. Ozoga, Larry Weishuhn, Grant Woods and other prominent deer biologists (many of which are mentioned in this article) as I have.

I think you are missing the point of mom45's story. It's not a lesson in biology. It's a nice story about the strong willed nature of a doe with 3 legs who has persevered over a long period of time and many of us enjoy the updates without your know-it-all attitude about educating ourselves. Some things you can get from books but I find you can get a lot more out of observation such as this nice story from mom45.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I was just telling my wife about Gimpy the other day. It's nice to get an update, and glad she's still alive and kicking (although probably not kicking as gracefully as the other deers).

 

[mom45]

I understand she may not have a peaceful death, but that is nature. I don't believe anyone is treating her any differently than the other deer in the area. Is it possible that hunters have passed on shooting her, I suppose it is. My husband has never once reported seeing her while he is out hunting though. I believe she is still around because she is very smart and more cautious than more able bodied deer in the area.

The theory about their teeth wearing down has merit. I used to raise goats, and had an old Alpine doe that my family had bought at an auction when we first started raising them. I showed her in 4-H for several years and always did well with her. The last year I showed her, the judge asked about her diet. I thought that was odd since I had never been asked that before about any of my animals. I told him what kind of grain/hay we fed, and he opened her mouth and asked me to look inside and tell me what I saw. Her teeth were worn down to the gums. There was literally no surface left to them to grind up her grain so she could digest it properly. We were all amazed that she had maintained her condition as well as she had, but she lived a few more years. I did start feeding her oatmeal when we saw her having more difficulty chewing her feed, but only for the last few months of her life.

I wasn't offended by Two70's post. He is correct that this is a wild animal and that nature can be cruel. Part of my reason for sharing this was to see if others had witnessed deer living to be in their teens in the wild. It is easier to track this one due to her missing leg making it easy to identify her, but it makes me wonder how many deer actually survive this long. Winter temps like we have had this week, hunting, vehicle's hitting deer....so many obstacles that would make one think this is just not possible.

None of us is guaranteed a peaceful death or a pain free life. We all hope that we can experience these things, but know it isn't the reality for many. I'm just amazed at her perseverance, and I'm glad others have enjoyed hearing her story.

 

[two70]

I haven't seen any evidence of this doe suffering or starving. She is well fed and produces twins or triplets every year. Nobody said nature was kind, but she has lived a long time without suffering.

I have seen some deer that have suffered horribly at the hands of "hunters". I am not anti-hunting by any means and have eaten plenty of venison over the years, but we do have at least one neighbor who claims to be a hunter who maims more deer than he recovers. The last doe he shot that I found on our property after he lost her due to no blood trail, suffered horribly after he shot her in the rump with an arrow and she laid there and obviously thrashed around for some time before she passed. That was just ONE of his lost deer that we recovered by following the buzzards a couple of days after he attempted to locate them. Others ran around with arrows broke off in their necks or shoulders or were gut shot. The one with the arrow in her rump was said to be shot in the ribs...he said his aim was just a little farther back than intended, but he was sure it was a good hit.

Just to be clear, I have no problem with anything you posted and have in fact enjoyed reading your posts. It is understandable that you would develop some attachment to the deer you get photos of regularly, it is very hard not too. My sole problem is with the rather silly sentiment that it would some how be better for the deer to suffer through the most likely end that comes with really advanced age in wild animals rather than to eventually be killed by a predator, whether human or coyote. To wish the deer a long, successful life and as quick and painless ending as possible when the time comes is a much better sentiment.

Death by old age in deer doesn't even come in to play until the deer are in there teens and more likely late, late teens in does according to the research I have read. Judging by the photos, Gimpy is still a young deer and it will be a long, long time before tooth wear becomes an issue. More than likely disease or predators will pull her down several years from now but long before death by old age becomes at all likely.

Hunters do unfortunately wound and lose deer. Some of it is bad hunters, some of it is bad situations and some is just bad luck. Deer also manage to find a wide variety of ways to get grievously wounded. Most, whether wounded by hunters or by other causes, will survive and lead relatively normal lives. Deer are tough.

 

[two70]

I think you are missing the point of mom45's story. It's not a lesson in biology. It's a nice story about the strong willed nature of a doe with 3 legs who has persevered over a long period of time and many of us enjoy the updates without your know-it-all attitude about educating ourselves. Some things you can get from books but I find you can get a lot more out of observation such as this nice story from mom45.

Not at all. I have enjoyed mom45's story of Gimpy immensely and as I posted above have absolutely no problem with anything mom45 has posted. My problem is solely with the naive comments I responded to directly and to the naive responses directed back at me when I attempted to interject some reality. It is not about deer biology, it is about basic understanding of nature vs. an idealized, distorted view of nature. Such efforts to distort or ignore reality are ultimately harmful to wildlife.

 

[Winamac]

I think you are missing the point of mom45's story. It's not a lesson in biology. It's a nice story about the strong willed nature of a doe with 3 legs who has persevered over a long period of time and many of us enjoy the updates without your know-it-all attitude about educating ourselves. Some things you can get from books but I find you can get a lot more out of observation such as this nice story from mom45.

^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[mom45]

Just to be clear, I have no problem with anything you posted and have in fact enjoyed reading your posts. It is understandable that you would develop some attachment to the deer you get photos of regularly, it is very hard not too. My sole problem is with the rather silly sentiment that it would some how be better for the deer to suffer through the most likely end that comes with really advanced age in wild animals rather than to eventually be killed by a predator, whether human or coyote. To wish the deer a long, successful life and as quick and painless ending as possible when the time comes is a much better sentiment.

Death by old age in deer doesn't even come in to play until the deer are in there teens and more likely late, late teens in does according to the research I have read. Judging by the photos, Gimpy is still a young deer and it will be a long, long time before tooth wear becomes an issue. More than likely disease or predators will pull her down several years from now but long before death by old age becomes at all likely.

Hunters do unfortunately wound and lose deer. Some of it is bad hunters, some of it is bad situations and some is just bad luck. Deer also manage to find a wide variety of ways to get grievously wounded. Most, whether wounded by hunters or by other causes, will survive and lead relatively normal lives. Deer are tough.

Gimpy is at least 15. We know that we first started seeing her as an adult doe in 2004 with that leg injured and hanging before it sloughed off. Our neighbors moved in to their house that year and they remember watching her in their back yard. I have photos of her back to at least 2007 from the window of my house. I guess my main source of amazement is that she is that age and in a healthy condition that would lead you to believe she is younger. She has no significant difficulties in getting around and has likely survived because of her smarts. I've seen her jump fences and run through snow. She is slower than the other deer and seems to stay away from the "herd", usually just being seen with her offspring from that year or the previous depending on the season.

She is rarely seen on the road so that probably has prevented her from meeting her demise due to a vehicle collision. We do have many coyotes around, and that very well may be how she ends up dying. I would rather see that than starvation taking her. I don't believe a coyote killing her is a quick death though since they tend to start by attacking the hind quarters. I'm not arguing...just responding to comments I guess. I don't believe anyone here has wished her to suffer any kind of a slow death. Honestly, I believe any deer here that would become weak due to an inability to eat properly is probably going to end up being taken by the coyotes because they would be the easiest target for them.

The "hunter" I referenced is definitely in the bad hunter category. He apparently doesn't understand that practicing with that bow would improve his placement of his arrows. He also doesn't understand that shooting deer that are not close enough for a good shot is a bad idea...I could go on, but you get the idea. He no longer hunts the border of our property because he is no longer allowed to track on our property. The last couple that he shot were well on our side when they were hit as evidenced by the tracks where their hooves dug into the dirt before they took off. I don't like being lied to so lying about where they were when shot and then telling me they ran into my woods doesn't sit well with me.

So...that being said and getting back to the purpose of this thread. I initially started this thread because I wanted to share her story and find out if others had seen deer live such a long, apparently healthy, life in the wild. As long as she can continue to have a good quality of life, I hope she does. If it comes down to her body becoming a source of nourishment for some other critters, then so be it...the cycle of life will have been completed.

 

[BigMatt]

https://www.realtree.com/deer-hunting/galleries/photo-gallery-from-buttons-to-booner

Can’t say for sure that this buck starved to death, but age certainly took its toll. I do know that long-lived herbivores’ (elephants and such) clocks start ticking once they lose their last matching molar.

That's a cool picture album...

 

[mom45]

Just to be clear, I have no problem with anything you posted and have in fact enjoyed reading your posts. It is understandable that you would develop some attachment to the deer you get photos of regularly, it is very hard not too. My sole problem is with the rather silly sentiment that it would some how be better for the deer to suffer through the most likely end that comes with really advanced age in wild animals rather than to eventually be killed by a predator, whether human or coyote. To wish the deer a long, successful life and as quick and painless ending as possible when the time comes is a much better sentiment.

Death by old age in deer doesn't even come in to play until the deer are in there teens and more likely late, late teens in does according to the research I have read. Judging by the photos, Gimpy is still a young deer and it will be a long, long time before tooth wear becomes an issue. More than likely disease or predators will pull her down several years from now but long before death by old age becomes at all likely.

Hunters do unfortunately wound and lose deer. Some of it is bad hunters, some of it is bad situations and some is just bad luck. Deer also manage to find a wide variety of ways to get grievously wounded. Most, whether wounded by hunters or by other causes, will survive and lead relatively normal lives. Deer are tough.

I was thinking about this thread last night after I had logged off, and I am still a little puzzled as to this statement. I haven't read back through the whole thread so maybe there is something I (or someone else) previously stated that result in this statement. If it was something I said, I apologize for not reading back through everything posted.

However, I want to clarify that nobody is doing anything to prolong this doe's life. It isn't like we have marked her with "do not shoot" signs for the hunters. Others have chosen not to shoot her if they have seen her because she is doing so well and usually has her young ones with her. She is foraging for food like any other wild deer and gets an occasional treat when she is seen here. As noted in the recent posts, she was seen the other day by a neighbor and is now known to still be alive and well. I have not seen her and have not specifically fed her for a long time. I put corn out for all of the deer so if she happens to find it and eat some, she is welcome to a treat. I have not seen her on the trail cameras since this most recent sighting.

She is living the way nature intended. I'm sure she will die the same way if not due to human intervention.