Need advice on a 1911!! Will be my first 1911 purchase

[church]

I would recommend avoiding a railed handgun for cc purposes. To much stuff to get snagged if you have to draw quick to defend yourself. Having a flashlight in the other hand is a much better alternative. Are you interested only in 1911's? Have you considered the springfield XD line? Could be a better choice for what you're wanting?

 

[JTinIN]

STI

 

[blueboxer]

That's really close to the size I'm looking for!!! I guess I didn't really specify what it'll be used for:
Really I just WANT one. I do carry, so at times I'm sure I would carry it, so unless you guys have 100% negatives to say about the smaller sized that's what I'm leaning towards. I'm not FIXED on the r1, but its definitely in my price range new in the box. I'm wanting to try and stay under $900 if possible.
Also are railed 1911s even practical?

If you just want one to try them out, get a government 5". They are the most reliable and best shooting, and can still be carried. For your price range a Springer loaded, E-series, or Sig is available, and I would recommend one of those over the R1. I just got a Sig traditional tacops for $917. For the rail consideration, read on.

I would recommend avoiding a railed handgun for cc purposes. To much stuff to get snagged if you have to draw quick to defend yourself. Having a flashlight in the other hand is a much better alternative. Are you interested only in 1911's? Have you considered the springfield XD line? Could be a better choice for what you're wanting?

If you are drawing quickly the top of the slide will rub the holster, so no rail will snag. I highly doubt that would ever be a factor, and almost all polymer handguns have rails on them from the factory. No one complains about them snagging.

The flashlight in the hand technique is pretty poor. Degrades accuracy and control which are essential in any fight. IMO a rail is for mounting a light for HD, not carry. The XD's are certainly great guns, I loved my XD9 Service. They can't replicate the 1911 feel though, just too different.

 

[Mitchell0481]

I defiantly prefer a 5" model over any other. You do get what you pay for. I had a Kimber Pro Carry2 then upgraded to a Springfield TRP Operator. By far my favorite pistol I have owned.

 

[RFox]

i have a RI 1911. great price, great gun. get it in .45

 

[church]

Having a flashlight mounted to the bottom of the gun while you're searching through the house in the middle of the night is dangerous on many levels. First, you have to point the light and gun in the same place, if your family happens to be roaming the house because they heard the same noise that has drawn you out of your bed then you may be pointing a gun at your family member. Which in any high stress situation can be extremely dangerous and lead to death of a family member. Also, if the flashlight is mounted to the bottom of the gun it gives any intruder your location, you have just become their target practice. Firearm next to your body at pectoral level and flashlight held high and away from your body is much safer. The flash light does not have to follow the gun so you can safely point it at family members to determine their identity without pointing a gun at them. Flashlight being the first thing someone sees in the dark, is more than likely to become the target. If held high and away your center mass or head is no longer the target. I would much rather have a bullet to the arm or hand than to the head or chest.

 

[LD36]

Church makes some good points and recommends some good tactics. But also walking around in the dark with no or inadequate illumination is just as, if not MORE dangerous. I think what it comes down to is trigger finger discipline and identification of the “threat.” Most people when they use a handheld flashlight, will also have the firearm pointed in the same direction (but not always). My guess is they are just as likely to shoot in a panic (being startled) whether the light is mounted on the handgun or whether it is handheld. Personally, I try to have a light mounted on any firearm that I use around the house or on duty. I think the tactical advantages outweigh the disadvantages. Just my 2 cents... but again, this is my OPINION. One needs to TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN with whatever method they decide to go with.

As for the rails on a 1911... I know A LOT of INGO’ers refer that a 1911 be kept in its traditional form (with NO rails). Personally, I love having rails on my Sig Scorpion 1911. I love having the versatility of being able to mount a light or other accessory to the weapon as needed/desired.

 

[blueboxer]

Having a flashlight mounted to the bottom of the gun while you're searching through the house in the middle of the night is dangerous on many levels. First, you have to point the light and gun in the same place, if your family happens to be roaming the house because they heard the same noise that has drawn you out of your bed then you may be pointing a gun at your family member. Which in any high stress situation can be extremely dangerous and lead to death of a family member. Also, if the flashlight is mounted to the bottom of the gun it gives any intruder your location, you have just become their target practice. Firearm next to your body at pectoral level and flashlight held high and away from your body is much safer. The flash light does not have to follow the gun so you can safely point it at family members to determine their identity without pointing a gun at them. Flashlight being the first thing someone sees in the dark, is more than likely to become the target. If held high and away your center mass or head is no longer the target. I would much rather have a bullet to the arm or hand than to the head or chest.

You're absolutely right that it's a high stress situation and regardless of where the flashlight is, trigger discipline must be exercised to its maximum. I would argue, as the case should always be, that you keep your finger OFF the trigger until a threat is clearly identified and you are ready to engage. It is very possible to clear your house with a weapon mounted light safely, even if you do spot someone who isn't a threat. Now...

...On holding the light up and away from your body. I'm being totally serious here. Try and do some shooting drills with your gun at the pectoral level and your support hand up in the air like a lighthouse. Really. I will be shocked if you can hit anything with even an occluded definition of "accuracy." Maybe you're Wyatt Erp and can hit things like that, but I for one cannot. And I haven't seen someone yet who can. Secondly the whole "hold the flashlight way away from you" bit is a misnomer. People argue the FBI taught that to divert attention. In reality, the FBI taught that technique when the Bureau used lanterns. Repeat, lanterns. As in light sources that must be held high and away from the body to provide useable light dispersion. Then the flashlight hand cross technique came about once good lights could be used. The next step in light evolution is seen pretty clearly with railed guns.

I'll sum up my thoughts for anyone who has this thought process on rail mounted lights in the following points:

1) Try and shoot with the high light chest level gun technique. Then shoot with a rail mounted light. Compare.

2) Practice constant gun safety, i.e. trigger control, i.e. NOT having your finger on the trigger until you are actually firing.

3) Ask yourself how you are going to do things like: open doors, use the phone to call 911, assist family members in moving locations, etc while you are doing the high light technique.

4) Take note of the fact that military, police, tactical schools, and the industry are moving heavily towards rail mounted lights. There is probably a reason for that, and ALL of those organizations place safety as an extraordinarily high priority. I do apologize if any of this comes off as rude or insulting, as that isn't my intent. I have thought a significant amount about the subject though, and I think there are some very strong reasons to move towards a mounted light for HD.

Church makes some good points and recommends some good tactics. But also walking around in the dark with no or inadequate illumination is just as, if not MORE dangerous. I think what it comes down to is trigger finger discipline and identification of the “threat.” Most people when they use a handheld flashlight, will also have the firearm pointed in the same direction (but not always). My guess is they are just as likely to shoot in a panic (being startled) whether the light is mounted on the handgun or whether it is handheld. Personally, I try to have a light mounted on any firearm that I use around the house or on duty. I think the tactical advantages outweigh the disadvantages. Just my 2 cents... but again, this is my OPINION. One needs to TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN with whatever method they decide to go with.

As for the rails on a 1911... I know A LOT of INGO’ers refer that a 1911 be kept in its traditional form (with NO rails). Personally, I love having rails on my Sig Scorpion 1911. I love having the versatility of being able to mount a light or other accessory to the weapon as needed/desired.

Exactly. Trigger finger discipline and being startled are the real danger, and that can happen just as easily regardless of where the light is. I totally agree on the tactical advantages as well. And apparently your gun taste, since I love my Sig's too!

 

[Sgt7330]

1911 and hemi

A 1911 that's not a .45 is like a 'cuda without a hemi. It'll work and it'll look sexy. But in the end, it's just.....meh.

Put so perfectly

 

[Liberty1911]

The 1911 platform was not made for 9mm and isn't as reliable as a .45.

Also, I wouldn't buy a cheap 1911. Spend at least $1000 or you'll probably regret it. Do the cheaper 1911's work? Yep, some work just fine, but some are nothing but problems. You're rolling the dice with a cheap 1911.

Kimber is a good choice. I own a tactical HD II and it's a great gun that hasn't malfunctioned yet. I also own a Springfield, which is better gun, but of course, more expensive.

I don't think you'll go wrong with a Colt or S&W either.

 

[IndyGuns1]

I wasn't really fixed on a rail, and you guys made some very valid points!! I just didn't want to buy a non railed gun and then regret it because a railed one was X amount more....

 

[blueboxer]

I wasn't really fixed on a rail, and you guys made some very valid points!! I just didn't want to buy a non railed gun and then regret it because a railed one was X amount more....

IMO the non-railed guns look better, and if you only want it for range use or carry they are great. When I decided to make my 1911 the bedside gun, I sold my non-railed and bought a railed Sig. While the rail guns aren't as streamlined and sexy as the non-railed, they do look pretty tacticool with a light on them. And let me tell you, an all steel 1911 with a four ounce TLR-1 on the rail hardly moves when you shoot it!

If you do decide on a rail, you won't find a better buy than the Sig. Night sights, ambi safeties, front strap checkering, magwell, and most come with four mags. Really a bargain! The Sig profile slide models can be found in the 800 range if you look. I didn't buy a Sig profile slide since I like the traditional round top, but both are great guns. Also the Sig profile slide has plenty of holsters available for it now, so I wouldn't worry about that.

 

[BudS]

I would save my money, buy a Rock Island, have a competent smith do a trigger job and feed ramp, and spend my savings on other cool gun stuff.

I was never a fan of copies, but RI has impressed me. I've had a couple now and right out of the box they performed well. After some polishing, they are fantastic.

 

[Aaron1776]

Having a flashlight mounted to the bottom of the gun while you're searching through the house in the middle of the night is dangerous on many levels. First, you have to point the light and gun in the same place, if your family happens to be roaming the house because they heard the same noise that has drawn you out of your bed then you may be pointing a gun at your family member. Which in any high stress situation can be extremely dangerous and lead to death of a family member. Also, if the flashlight is mounted to the bottom of the gun it gives any intruder your location, you have just become their target practice. Firearm next to your body at pectoral level and flashlight held high and away from your body is much safer. The flash light does not have to follow the gun so you can safely point it at family members to determine their identity without pointing a gun at them. Flashlight being the first thing someone sees in the dark, is more than likely to become the target. If held high and away your center mass or head is no longer the target. I would much rather have a bullet to the arm or hand than to the head or chest.

You're absolutely right that it's a high stress situation and regardless of where the flashlight is, trigger discipline must be exercised to its maximum. I would argue, as the case should always be, that you keep your finger OFF the trigger until a threat is clearly identified and you are ready to engage. It is very possible to clear your house with a weapon mounted light safely, even if you do spot someone who isn't a threat. Now...

...On holding the light up and away from your body. I'm being totally serious here. Try and do some shooting drills with your gun at the pectoral level and your support hand up in the air like a lighthouse. Really. I will be shocked if you can hit anything with even an occluded definition of "accuracy." Maybe you're Wyatt Erp and can hit things like that, but I for one cannot. And I haven't seen someone yet who can. Secondly the whole "hold the flashlight way away from you" bit is a misnomer. People argue the FBI taught that to divert attention. In reality, the FBI taught that technique when the Bureau used lanterns. Repeat, lanterns. As in light sources that must be held high and away from the body to provide useable light dispersion. Then the flashlight hand cross technique came about once good lights could be used. The next step in light evolution is seen pretty clearly with railed guns.

Blueboxer was being nice, and everything he said was correct.

I'll be a little more direct.

Please stop thinking that having one hand on the gun is in anyway ever a better decision than having two. (If you can help it)

You say that having the light in one hand and the gun in the other keeps you from covering family with the muzzle. That is entirely untrue. Where is your chest pointing? The same direction you'll be pointing your flashlight. Your eyes will track to the target and your body will automatically follow under stress.

Having your light in the other hand will not stop you from shooting your family by accident. If you're unconditioned enough mentally to be pulling the trigger at everything that moves with two hands on the gun, you'll do it with one hand, albeit less accurately. Again your eyes will track to the target and your body/ wrist will automatically follow under stress. This is only solved by keeping the finger off the trigger and shoot/no shoot exercises. Train your brain.

Also, having a light in your hand, when deployed properly, will not necessarily make you a target. Have you ever been hit with the beam from a 300 lumen TLR-1 tac light?? You won't be using anything as target practice. You'll be BLIND. The same will be true of the BG you flash. Just decide when you are going to deploy your light. If you can manuever safely without it, dont deploy it until you have a potential target so as not to give away your position. Shine the light when you see someone. Is it a family member or friend? Yes. Don't shoot. No? Shoot him.

If you want to practice this at home, have a family member put up targets in your house that are innocents and BGs. Take an airsoft gun with an attached light, and clear the house practicing shoot/no shoot....or better yet take a low light combat class. (This is prefered. Professional instruction is always the way to go if it's an option.)

I'm not trying to be rude here, but, as blueboxer alluded to, those techniques are very outdated and were abandoned for a reason.

Also. I have rails on ALL of my self-defense type guns. Never had a snag. Ever.

EDIT: This is assumed you've been forced into the absurd tactical position of clearing a house alone as a single (I hesitate to use the word) operator. If you have the luxury (I.e. you have no kids and your wife is in the same room with you) of not moving, pick a dark, shadowy corner and ambush him/them, blind him/them with your 300 lumen light, and blast him/them with your shotgun.

 

[Corporal D]

Having a flashlight mounted to the bottom of the gun while you're searching through the house in the middle of the night is dangerous on many levels. First, you have to point the light and gun in the same place, if your family happens to be roaming the house because they heard the same noise that has drawn you out of your bed then you may be pointing a gun at your family member. Which in any high stress situation can be extremely dangerous and lead to death of a family member. Also, if the flashlight is mounted to the bottom of the gun it gives any intruder your location, you have just become their target practice. Firearm next to your body at pectoral level and flashlight held high and away from your body is much safer. The flash light does not have to follow the gun so you can safely point it at family members to determine their identity without pointing a gun at them. Flashlight being the first thing someone sees in the dark, is more than likely to become the target. If held high and away your center mass or head is no longer the target. I would much rather have a bullet to the arm or hand than to the head or chest.

^^^This is terrible advice. Take it from someone who has real experience clearing houses, Tac rails with lights are great! And walking around like the statue of liberty is just ridiculous. Get some real training, don't listen to everything you read on the internet.



I've heard good things about the R1, haven't had the pleasure of shooting one yet, just fondling a couple. Fit and finish seemed good for the price.

Look at Springfield, they make a nice 1911. As far as barrel length, I wouldn't go below 4" (this coming from a guy that carries a ported 3.5" daily). A lot of the semi-custom and full custom shops won't go below that, you run into more reliability concerns because of the short recoil stroke. Timing has to be dead on, there's not any room for slop. My V10 has been nothing but reliable, but I maintain it very well.

As far as .45 vs 9mm... I have 4 in .45 and 1 in 9mm, the 9 has been picky and needs a little more work before I'd consider it as reliable as the .45s

Get a quality .45 in 5" and the recoil won't be bad and it'll run great as long as you do your part.

 

[SERparacord]

Clear your houses in another thread.

 

[Manatee]

The recent NRA mag had a writeup on Remington R1 accuracy. To sum it up: outstanding.

The current production R1's have a very nice stock trigger.

Remington's aren't as inexpensive as they were a few years back. However, they are fine 1911's. My favorites in that price range (S&W's and Springfields) are going to be competing against Remingtons for "favorite 1911 under $1000).

I presently have a Remington R1 with a threaded barrel for sale if anyone is interested. nib

 

[IndyND]

I'm not surprised by the amount of recommendations for .45, it is the original and works very well. I love the Remington 1911 R1. I have put a lot of 9mm rounds through a STI Spartan 1911 and never had a single malfunction. I love this platform in a 1911: Heavy gun, with crisp, light trigger and minimal recoil. The STI is also very accurate. If you want to spend time with 9mm rounds and a great pistol don't hesitate. You can pick up the original caliber gun later.

 

[IndyGuns1]

So after all the talk of Springfields I may have to look into those as well. I figured they were alot more expensive. The r1 that I saw was right around $750 if memory serves correct. Again I appreciate everyone's input! I guess you could say I'm into the "new age" type guns. The infamous "black guns" glock,m&p, and XDs and I own several but I have really been wanting a 1911. And my knowledge on these were low, so any advice I'm definitely noting!

 

[Mark33]

I would buy Colt.